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The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

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Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#821

Post by rootusrootus »

webstrand wrote: post #443
embedding-shape wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How…

This is anecdotal, America is geographically quite large. For a lot of people, where these events are happening are more than a days drive away (10 hours or more), it's not happening "here". A lot of people here _enjoy_ the authoritarianism, judging by the votes, the voter turnout, and the private discussions I've had with my neighbors. They believe this is good for the country and that there'll be more opportunities…

I think you hit the nail on the head. I count myself mostly in the "holding out for elections" group but a little bit part of the fatalistic group as well. The really sad part of the whole experience is how many people I know that support everything that is going on, and they are not in any way claiming ignorance.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#822

Post by actionfromafar »

ceejayoz wrote: post #328
zbentley wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that be different from current municipal police forces?

The "under the control of the mayor" bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrolmen%27s_Benevolent_Assoc... > Approximately 4,000 NYPD officers took part in a protest that included blocking traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge and jumping over police barricades in an attempt to rush City Hall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_San_Francisco_P... > The ACLU obtained a court order prohibiting strikers from carrying…

Ah, Rudy Giuliani. I see he was always a creep.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#823

Post by alex43578 »

deeg wrote: post #809
alex43578 wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of illegal immigrants did commit a crime by virtue of being illegals, violating 8 U.S.C. 1325, so the crime-rate for illegals is certainly higher than non-immigrants right out of the gate. For the less-than-half who have “only” committed civil immigration violations, the point still remains that they are here illegally and are subject to civil immigration proceedings.

So no comment about illegally knocking down doors? No comment about stopping naturalization ceremonies? I'll go back to this: if we wanted to reduce crime, we'd go after citizens first.

I’m unfamiliar with the details of the door knocking case, but I’ll defer to the courts on it. More broadly, plenty of citizens have had their fourth amendment rights violated, petitioned the court for redress, and received it - that doesn’t mean we stop enforcing traffic laws, drug laws, or disband the local police.

Naturalization: not mentioned in my thread that I can see, but just like parole, TPS, and other immigration proceedings, it’s only permanent when it’s permanent.

“if we wanted to reduce crime, we'd go after citizens first”: Yes, I agree! Let’s fund the police and prosecutors, reinstate requirements to post bail for crimes, and enforce our existing laws, even for things like shoplifting, drug possession, and panhandling.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#824

Post by xyzelement »

anal_reactor wrote: post #534
xyzelement wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's something different than "Americans are passive" - rather, many of them/us perceive the context of what you're seeing very differently. I can share some of this perspective though I don't insist it's the only way to feel. 1. Americans on the ground are clearly feeling the effects of illegal immigration. As an example: a an African American janitor in our kids' school voted republican in 2024 for the firs…

I live in Europe, in an immigrant ghetto. Well, I'm not sure whether the word "immigrant" is correct, because most residents are second or third generation and have passports. The cultural gap is just too much. There are explosions 24/7 and the amount of trash on the street hurts my eyes. A party by my window at 2AM - check. It happens that you have a group of six guys walking down the middle of the road and the fuck…

You got downvoted for stating your experience in a way that feels unpalatable to someone who doesn't have to deal with this. But your story is a perfect example of what I am talking about. If you live in MN or somewhere else that's drastically changed in this way in recent years, you're (a) thrilled that someone is finally doing something and (b) just not gonna be super upset about things that go wrong in the process even though obviously you don't want them going wrong.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#825

Post by rootusrootus »

embedding-shape wrote: post #418
afavour wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A broad answer: because America is more violent. The ICE officers are armed and absolutely will use their weapons if given half a chance to. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think any rioters in countries like Spain go to a protest with a bet real chance on their minds that they might die.

> Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think any rioters in countries like Spain go to a protest with a bet real chance on their minds that they might die. That's the thing, they do, and have in the past too. Some might even recall riots ~70 years ago that kind of spiraled out of control and led to a civil war. Looking at what's happening in Iran as we speak might be a good idea as well, where they've had enough, know that th…

> So this was the whole point with the 2nd amendment right, that when/if the government repress you in that way, you have weapons to fight back?

Not as far as I understand. The 2nd amendment was from a time when we did not have much of a standing army and the country relied on militias for firepower. Some of the proposed language for the second amendment makes this clearer, but it was cut in the final version.

The tyranny bit was probably always someone's fantasy, and the self-defense aspect is basically a shift of interpretation that is much more recent.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#826

Post by ceejayoz »

mosura wrote: post #782
ceejayoz wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You: "Selectively enforcing only the laws you want to is the key enabler of corruption." Also you: "convicting people of trumped up nonsense..." Whoops. Someone sure seems… selective . (And we've gone full circle, to my original point.) > Your problem is you want things more than think about them. This is precisely the implementation problem inherent in "immediately deport tens of millions of people upon which Americ…

What came first, Trump or failing to enforce laws regarding mass illegal immigration? With a multi decade head start too. You cannot expect institutions that selectively ignored laws for decades to think it is legal for anyone to stop them from doing so, despite not being able to pin anything concrete to anyone at all. In fact you expect the kind of “ha!” you are trying to pull here. Trump would not be close to the p…

> What came first, Trump or failing to enforce laws regarding mass illegal immigration?

If you wanna play that game, the country started with selective enforcement on day one. The Fourth Amendment didn’t apply to a rather large portion of the population.

> Somewhat reminiscent of the British declaring the American Revolution illegal.

It was absolutely illegal. What is legal is not always moral (the Holocaust, after all, was legal in Hitler’s Germany); what is moral is not always legal.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#827

Post by RickJWagner »

willmarch wrote: post #753
RickJWagner wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please pick one. Videos don’t show full context. I will try to run to the ground ( as well as I can ) one of these. Which would you say is the one that best makes your case?

Okay, go for the first one where ICE shoots a pastor directly in the head from a rooftop with a pepper ball (their claimed reason was they were blocking a vehicle, but in the video the pastor is on the sidewalk and there is no vehicle in sight anywhere. Also, that is not the way that sort of weapon is supposed to be used for crowd control as it could seriously injure someone).

Thanks for that. Here’s what I’ve found for the governments response:

- Demonstrators were throwing rocks and bottles, and shooting fireworks at ICE agents.

- Demonstrators were blocking vehicles, impeding ICE operations.

- The demonstrators were trespassing on federal property and were repeatedly warned before force was used.

I have been unable to find anything claiming those are false. Let me know if you have a source that contradicts these.

If it turns out all of those are true, does that justify the use of pepper spray to you? It does for me. I’ve shot paintballs ( not pepper spray balls ) many times and do not believe they can be reasonably aimed for a headshot. I’ll consider that a ‘lucky shot’.

Let me know it you have proof against the government claims, or if you feel unnecessary force was used if they are all true.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#828

Post by rootusrootus »

lux-lux-lux wrote: post #452
embedding-shape wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How…

We had nationwide riots for months back in 2020 over a police officer murdering a suspect, and that resulted in approximately zero actual political change. During the recent shutdown over the budget, we had one of the largest protests in the country’s history and massive shifts towards the opposition in elections followed by them immediately folding in exchange for essentially nothing. The political class is very wel…

The politicians on the right are not well insulated -- they are very responsive to what their constituents' popular will is, to a fault. The left still hasn't figured out what the hell they're going to do next. Probably just continue the "we aren't Trump!" chanting and hope that's enough to win elections. Meanwhile their own constituents are just as frustrated with status quo as the right was.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#829

Post by greycol »

Amezarak wrote: post #417
benrutter wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article for context: > Palantir is working on a tool for Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) that populates a map with potential deportation targets, brings up a dossier on each person, and provides a “confidence score” on the person’s current address So essentially, the relevant app here is custom built in order to help ICE raids. That's substantially different from generic office tech where ICE happe…

You're going to have to explain to me why it's a bad thing or immoral for the government to be aware of where immigrants who legally need to be deported live.

IBM made custom software and hardware to process Jews that legally needed to be in camps. I'm sure that was equally not a 'bad thing' or 'immoral'.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#830

Post by rootusrootus »

fifilura wrote: post #466
pixl97 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The particular problem here is the vast majority of people that are writing this software 1. Don't care, blood is great. 2. Think they are the good guys. 3. Are more worried about their next paycheck and having bad things happen to them related to not paying rent.

Not surprised. At least 30% of the population voted for the current president. Should be some software developers among those?

A fair number, I assure you, I know plenty.
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