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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#821

Post by nickpp »

crote wrote: post #813
selfmodruntime wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of mandating the standard to be used, they should've mandated that phone vendors agree on one standard, with a revision every x years or so.

Luckily, that is exactly what happened! The law explicitly states that it will be reviewed every few years to determine whether USB-C is still the best choice.

And why would a better choice magically appear though when it’s illegal to put it on the market to let it prove itself? Why would anybody who is actually innovative pay to research and risk such a better choice in the first place? To wait for its review in a few years?!

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#822

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

solarkraft wrote: post #761
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents want to cook dinner with knives. They have no interest in side loading custom applications though.

My parents want to install applications of their choosing on their devices, but have no interest in knife-cooked dinner.

I find this hard to believe. Don’t get me wrong, freedom to sideload apps is a thing I believe in, but saying ‘it’s because my parents want more freedom’ is certainly a stretch.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#823

Post by mrkramer »

ikurei wrote: post #820
mrkramer wrote: post #793

Apple's exclusivity on allowing and deciding what goes on the AppStore and on the iOS was their way of controlling the user experience and their way to ensure future sales of iPhones. They didn't want that iOS, AppStore and iPhones get flooded with low quality apps. Similar way of thinking that I know of was Valve and Steam, where Steam users needed to Greenlit a game before it came to the Steam store. Imo Steam had…

> Similar way of thinking that I know of was Valve and Steam, where Steam users needed to Greenlit a game before it came to the Steam store. Not the same at all. You can install whatever you want on the Steam Deck. I'd fine with Apple just curating their App Store; I am not fine with them deciding what software I can run on "my" device.

I meant Valve didn't want Steam to be flooded with low quality games (back in the day) which would interest nobody and would only turn away people from Steam.

>I'd fine with Apple just curating their App Store; I am not fine with them deciding what software I can run on "my" device.

Yea that's horrible, that's why Microsoft and Windows are great when speaking about PC industry and comparing it to the iOS and iPhones.

I personally only use Android for the same reason why I only use Windows and that is Android and Windows are open operating systems and I can install whatever I want.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#824

Post by mrkramer »

mikenew wrote: post #818
mrkramer wrote: post #793

Apple's exclusivity on allowing and deciding what goes on the AppStore and on the iOS was their way of controlling the user experience and their way to ensure future sales of iPhones. They didn't want that iOS, AppStore and iPhones get flooded with low quality apps. Similar way of thinking that I know of was Valve and Steam, where Steam users needed to Greenlit a game before it came to the Steam store. Imo Steam had…

The major difference is that I can install whatever the hell I want on my own PC (including my Steam Deck!). Apple has an exclusive store and an exclusive device.

I never used an iPhone and I don't really know how horrible it is but if people are annoyed with iOS and iPhone, they can always use Android devices. Android devices are on a par with iPhones unlike 10 years ago.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#825

Post by hailwren »

golergka wrote: post #798
hailwren wrote: post #792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they’re also stuck with physical sims because of those same laws. I vastly prefer the esim in the US iphone to the tray.

I've travelled across Europe with eSims bought from Mobimatter, and I've also bought local Vodaphone eSim in Italy and some other operator Montenegro. In fact, I'm writing this from a eSim in my iphone while I wait for Airbnb to resolve issues with check-in on Cyprus. What are you talking about?

oh, maybe you have both? US iphones don’t have sim trays. Euro iphones do.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#826

Post by [deleted] »

leoh wrote: post #727

Superior functionality exclusively in the EU — USB-C, side-loading — is a good thing. It will remind US folks that the law is a powerful mechanism for making simple, non-controversial changes that improve everyone’s quality of life; but which corporations would otherwise refuse to accept. BTW — LAAS (lobbying-as-a-service) should probably exist.

[deleted]

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#827

Post by afavour »

Terretta wrote: post #812
afavour wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear you absolutely cannot run Xbox games in a web browser. The service you’re talking about is just streaming video from a remote Xbox to the phone. You and the OP are both right about fullscreen. There is a web fullscreen API, which Apple does not support. However, PWAs strip out the browser UI so you’re effectively fullscreen. Though you can’t do anything about the status bar, nor can you lock screen orient…

Not sure what you mean by strip out the browser UI. When home screen apps first came out we built some for clients and if I recall correctly, lack of browser UI was default.

Right, PWAs strip out the browser UI. We’re in agreement.

(it actually isn’t by default, it requires specific flag, but it’s more or less what everyone considers to be a standard for PWAs)

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#828

Post by wilg »

superkuh wrote: post #618
wilg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We focus too much on criticizing language instead of ideas. IMHO, this just leads to tiresome and hollow debates. So, I’ll call that out here. Also, your proposed rewording isn’t correct either because installing applications is already allowed. You can debate the App Store all you want, but it definitely does let you install apps. On topic: This is silly and Apple should allow sideloading. I don’t buy the security a…

>criticizing language instead of ideas. I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. It's obvious that I'm criticising the idea of "sideloading" not the word. You can call it some other arrangement of letters and the concept is still very dangerous. And in this case it is also definitely true that apple does not let you install applications without someone paying them $100+ and their continued approval. The "let"…

Responding even though I know it’s not going to be fruitful.

The way I came to that conclusion is I read what you wrote, which primarily discusses the language, not the idea. See your references to “doublespeak”, “framing”, “headlines”, and “the word sideloading”.

You claimed “Installing applications on iOS 17 might be allowed in Europe” would be a more accurate headline. It wouldn’t be, because you can install applications via the App Store. If you wanted your headline to be both accurate and to discuss the approval process and fee, you would need to include that, as the original headline does by mentioning “sideloading”, the word that you take issue with but does at least actually raise the issue you’re concerned with.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#829

Post by labcomputer »

rektide wrote: post #674
SXX wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For years Google been stamping "standards" one after another even though other browser vendors were against many of them and they end up being Chrome-only. No matter what Apple itself does Safari being major non-Chromium browser helps Firefox a lot just by existing and having huge marketshare.

It's a three player world now, and Google wants a better web, Apple doesn't want a better web, and Mozilla is somewhere in-between, but increasingly playing the "privacy above all else" card too. In June 2020, Apple declared a bunch of APIs they will not implement ( https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-declined-to-implement-16... ), in a big press blitz trying to make it look like they were some noble hero. Web MIDI (…

> and Google wants a better web

[Citation needed]

> Magnetometer/Ambient Light/Battery/Proximity sensors [...] Device Memory,

I don't have words to describe what a shockingly bad idea this is.

> A week latter Mozilla put out a similar PR using the exact same Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) to try to make themselves look good, to declare themselves virtuous non-implementors.

Maybe because it's a really fucking stupid idea, and the criticism of those APIs is not FUD.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#830

Post by dgellow »

mig39 wrote: post #757
DannyBee wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, that magic new port that dose something we can't do, but nobody can pinpoint what it is or why we need it. It's been a decade since a new port (lightning was 2012, usb-c is 2014). So apparently, they are doing pretty well! I think my answer here would "enjoy the next decade of benefits and worry about it then?"

When this was first proposed in the EU, the connected they wanted to mandate was the "standard" at the time. USB Mini-B. Which is now deprecated and a few generations behind. And the same arguments were made at the time. "Stifle innovation" and "what innovation, this connector is perfect. No need for improvement."

EU regulations are constantly updated to follow modern developments. It’s not a frozen thing.
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