Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing • Hacker News Board

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#821

Post by Moodles » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

fighterpilot wrote: post #405

madrox wrote: post #144

I'm not sure where we go from here, but not being able to escape anxiety-inducing situations in a workplace is the definition of a toxic work environment. I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work," but at the FAANG I worked at, politics was impossible to avoid. Even the desire to be apolitical is itself criticized at worst and not respected at best. Work doesn't afford the use of the…

"not being able to escape anxiety-inducing situations" This sounds like an emotionally abusive environment unless you happen to agree with the political agenda being pushed. To feel socially pressured to go along or else be ostracized from your work is fairly awful. I'm fortunate that I've worked in a rather politically balanced industry which naturally turns out to be apolitical as a consequence of mere demographics…

> This sounds like an emotionally abusive environment unless you happen to agree with the political agenda being pushed.

Yeah, 100%. Were you in California last summer? “Silence is violence” was the phrase of the day. I’ve got about a gazillion stories from living in San Francisco for three years.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#822

Post by caspper69 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #753

caspper69 wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he's referring to a time when people weren't antagonistic and tribal at work, just like he said. From the tone of your comment, you seem incredulous that such a time actually existed. It did.

There have always been people who are antagonistic and tribal at work. What’re you talking about? Where do asshole bosses and kiss-ass tropes come from if not precisely this?

Yes, but the antagonism used to be about work.

Not everything else.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#823

Post by Dunedan » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

baryphonic wrote: post #449

> Coinbase and Basecamp, which each lost 60 employees after their bosses changed the rules, have apparently been inundated with applications from people wanting to work for politics-free firms. Basecamp lost 20 employees. 60 would be nearly their entire workforce. Coinbase did indeed lose 60 people out of around 1200 at the time.[0] [0] https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2020-10-08...

According to Wikipedia, 23 out of 57 Basecamp employees left the company recently. [1][2]

Unfortunately verifying that using information from Basecamp doesn't seem to be possible anymore, as they took down both pages listing their employees. [3][4]

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Basecamp_(company...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basecamp_(company)

[3]: https://basecamp.com/about/team

[4]: https://basecamp.com/humans.txt

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#824

Post by devdas » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

throwaway1959 wrote: post #66

eh9 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a PoC, I’ve also fielded those comments from white co-workers and it honestly feels like a contemporary version of being blind to race.

Can you expand on what do you mean as being blind to race? Do you want them to see your race, treat different races differently? Aren't we supposed to be a color-blind society? Maybe I am just not understanding what you mean.

There's a context implied, but not explicitly stated here.

Being "blind to race" means that the context in which the other person exists is being ignored. Seeing things like race and gender mean that you are keeping context in mind when interacting with people.

Systemic racism isn't necessarily about your personal intent, but it is about the results of your actions. Being blind to race effectively results in supporting the racist status quo. Being blind to sexism effectively results in supporting the sexist status quo.

The current default for American society is white. PoC have a different lived experience, and white people don't often know what it is like to have that lived experience. Similarly, richer people lack an understanding of what poverty implies about the lack of choices.

https://www.salon.com/2021/05/18/rich-people-actually-do-hav...

There are a number of axes where discrimination exists, and being blind to those axes means that you support the discriminatory position in practice.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#825

Post by Moodles » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

chitowneats wrote: post #791

darkerside wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anxiety is a normal emotion. If it's pervasive it can certainly be a problem, but I'll also point out that anxiety inducing situations can have nothing to do with politics, of course. People who approach others like this are putting themselves out there. They are just as at risk, if not more, as you would be by expressing your own responses in a non threatening way. If you don't know how to do that, I suggest you lea…

This is absolutely ridiculous. Please, people, do NOT be honest about your conservative or non-woke political positions in this industry. You will absolutely be punished for them by your peers. It is not in any situation ever worth it. Clock in, clock out, take the check, and always always always keep interviewing constantly because they will have no issues firing you arbitrarily. Work at a large enough company and t…

I agree with you, though it is still a little soul crushing. Obviously making big bucks and providing for your family is more important than debating some cancel culture social justice warrior at work who’ll never be convinced anyway, but listening to some eye rolling inducing faff every day and feeling like if you just told the truth you’d be fired makes you feel weak after a long time. Especially if you vehemently disagree just as strongly as they think what they think.

Being honest and disagreeing would not be as heroic as refusing to “just go along with the nazis”, but just ignoring them is also a little harder than ignoring some crazy preacher on the street. It’s an awkward middle ground that just slowly erodes your soul and I find myself looking for friends as outlets to moan to when I hear something particularly ridiculous. But I absolutely hate feeling weak that I need to remain silent, or feeling like I’m in the damn French resistance or something when I actually have pretty moderate views. Worst of all? I say what I think to people who I respect enough as adults to be able to take it. But when I remain silent it’s basically because I think they’re emotionally too immature to take it.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#826

Post by chitowneats » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

Moodles wrote: post #825

chitowneats wrote: post #791

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Please, people, do NOT be honest about your conservative or non-woke political positions in this industry. You will absolutely be punished for them by your peers. It is not in any situation ever worth it. Clock in, clock out, take the check, and always always always keep interviewing constantly because they will have no issues firing you arbitrarily. Work at a large enough company and t…

I agree with you, though it is still a little soul crushing. Obviously making big bucks and providing for your family is more important than debating some cancel culture social justice warrior at work who’ll never be convinced anyway, but listening to some eye rolling inducing faff every day and feeling like if you just told the truth you’d be fired makes you feel weak after a long time. Especially if you vehemently…

Agreed. It's important to find an outlet for expressing yourself outside of work. Be sure to keep it either local or anonymous.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#827

Post by koheripbal » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

madrox wrote: post #304

mk81 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work" Why not?

Because the genie is out the bottle. For better or worse, many tech companies have worked hard to make your workplace your social hub in an effort to retain employees and get them to work longer hours. That's already happened, so now we have to deal with the good and bad that came from that. Going backward to how things were is as realistic as uninventing Twitter.

As someone who worked in tech in the 20th century, we also worked long hours, fyi.

We didn't connect with coworkers outside work, I think, because social media didn't exist and so we held on more to earlier friendships longer and actually were more open to acquainting ourselves to new strangers we met in public.

The old "can I have your number" days.

I think politics were present in the office much, because pre-social media, there was no conduit to get bombarded with hyperbolic political messages. ...and thus those people who were very political were not invited to social gatherings more frequently. ...something you can't do as easily on social media.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#828

Post by koheripbal » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

gnopgnip wrote: post #720

mk81 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work" Why not?

Because "no politics at work" isn't neutral, it means supporting the status quo by way of defining what counts as "politics". Is calling someone by their preferred pronouns, or wearing a mask during the pandemic politics?

People have a right to political privacy.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#829

Post by Kye » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

Dunedan wrote: post #823

baryphonic wrote: post #449

> Coinbase and Basecamp, which each lost 60 employees after their bosses changed the rules, have apparently been inundated with applications from people wanting to work for politics-free firms. Basecamp lost 20 employees. 60 would be nearly their entire workforce. Coinbase did indeed lose 60 people out of around 1200 at the time.[0] [0] https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2020-10-08...

According to Wikipedia, 23 out of 57 Basecamp employees left the company recently. [1][2] Unfortunately verifying that using information from Basecamp doesn't seem to be possible anymore, as they took down both pages listing their employees. [3][4] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Basecamp_(company... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basecamp_(company) [3]: https://basecamp.com/about/team [4]: https:…

The last non-redirected crawl on Internet Archive still showed it with all the employees they had before shooting their mouths off.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#830

Post by ne0flex » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

Moodles wrote: post #821

fighterpilot wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"not being able to escape anxiety-inducing situations" This sounds like an emotionally abusive environment unless you happen to agree with the political agenda being pushed. To feel socially pressured to go along or else be ostracized from your work is fairly awful. I'm fortunate that I've worked in a rather politically balanced industry which naturally turns out to be apolitical as a consequence of mere demographics…

> This sounds like an emotionally abusive environment unless you happen to agree with the political agenda being pushed. Yeah, 100%. Were you in California last summer? “Silence is violence” was the phrase of the day. I’ve got about a gazillion stories from living in San Francisco for three years.

I'm curious if you could share some of your stories.

Since last year, I've stopped using social media like FB. When the summer came around, my friends were posting political stuff online and noticed I wasn't interacting with it. My phone would then blow up with messages along the theme of: "are you showing your real self by not supporting x?".