George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter • Hacker News Board

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#821

Post by lazyjones » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 12:14 AM UTC

smaddox wrote: post #712

lazyjones wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the value in going on Twitter and actively looking for information that confirms your bias? This is what most people, of all political inclinations, are doing.

It seems like you're suggesting mainstream news sources are somehow different? Personally I prefer the explicit bias of individuals on Twitter, than the implicit bias of mainstream news sources.

Mainstream media's bias is no more implicit than that of many individuals on Twitter (e.g. celebrities) and at least my time is better spent reading about a subject on selected media that span a wide political spectrum. But there is a risk: you might get the impression that mainstream media reporting is disturbingly inaccurate, on all sides.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#822

Post by esperent » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 12:15 AM UTC

bufferoverflow wrote: post #788

esperent wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to your questions is that those are not examples of police brutality, so long as the police respond with reasonable force. Along with reading your other comments here, I viewed these 4 questions as a bad faith attempt at steering the conversation off topic. When people complain about police brutality, we are not talking about the times when police have to legitimately defend themselves or disarm someone. T…

"Bad faith" is the copout people use when they don't have a good counterargument.

I just gave you a counterargument and an opportunity to turn this around and respond in good faith to the issue at hand. You didn't take it. That's why I'm saying you're arguing in bad faith. You refuse to accept fault or engage with the real issue here, instead resorting to logical phallacies to try and derail the conversation, as most people on the far right do these days. Try again. Can you respond to the issue at hand, ongoing police brutality in the BLM protests?

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#823

Post by downerending » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 12:18 AM UTC

hwillis wrote: post #794

downerending wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point is that "black on black violence" is essentially a myth. This doesn't even pass the laugh test.

If you don't care to read anything, maybe you're on the wrong website.

I also don't read links that purport to tell me that it's safe to plunge my arm into boiling water.

I think it's spectacularly offensive to tell black people that there's no problem of other black people killing them in their neighborhoods. The problem clearly exists and is in desperate need of a solution. The real question is how to fix it.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#824

Post by downerending » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 12:24 AM UTC

rabidrat wrote: post #800

downerending wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the police are causing most of these protests and riots Free will is a thing, and the police cannot make you go out and commit vandalism, mayhem, and murder.

Free will is questionably a thing. If you are trapped, hungry, thirsty, threatened, and you see your neighbors beaten for minor infractions, then some kind of "mayhem" is not an unreasonable choice. Or would you rather they quietly took the abuse and had their next-of-kin file a complaint that will be summarily ignored? BTW these are all things that protesters experience, as the police as trained in "crowd control" t…

Mayhem is always an unreasonable choice. And it certainly won't feed you if you're hungry.

And judging by the pictures, very few of the protesters were desperate, tired, hungry, downtrodden, etc. For most, it's an opportunity to virtue signal for a day or two, and then go back to their relatively affluent lives and forget about all of this.

Hardly a one would be caught dead tutoring some inner city kid with their algebra. Far more fun to taunt cops in an impossible position.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#825

Post by brigandish » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 12:42 AM UTC

exogen wrote: post #183

brigandish wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bare assertion followed by a bare refusal isn't much help. If you would instead provide some information, that would be a big help to all those of us who do not live in Seattle.

This is a very accurate take that leads with some context before getting to the current situation: https://nostalgebraist.tumblr.com/post/620713736158724096/he...

Thanks, I appreciate it. Obviously it's hard for me to confirm things (an increasing problem) but at the very least it gives me an insight and a hook into events.

Not sure why people can't take their political hat off for HN and try to inform.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#826

Post by brigandish » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 12:43 AM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #544

brigandish wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bare assertion followed by a bare refusal isn't much help. If you would instead provide some information, that would be a big help to all those of us who do not live in Seattle.

When other people have been downvoted, they complain that no reason was given. I am doing the courtesy of telling you why I downvoted you. If telling you why I downvoted you then also compels me to justify my position in an extended way, then I will not do it in the future. Instead I will just silently downvote when I feel it is warranted.

That's up to you but I'm sure you could put the effort in, someone else has.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#827

Post by fareesh » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 2:14 AM UTC

ravingraven wrote: post #486

fareesh wrote: post #462

From what I understand, all of these people are breaking curfew and ignoring instructions to leave the area, and in some cases are acting belligerent when confronted, and this is happening at scale. Is the expectation that curfew is an order that should not be enforced in the strictest sense? From what I could see on the news, parts of your country were being burned down and looted by some rogue elements who used the…

>In my country I would want the police to beat the ever loving expletive out of people who do go out in large crowds during a pandemic. Maybe in your country blind, extrajudicial violence is not a no-no. This is not the case in democratic countries. >To protect the lives and livelihoods of those affected, a curfew was imposed, which was then violated. This is a) a slippery slope (a corrupt government would declare a…

> Maybe in your country blind, extrajudicial violence is not a no-no. This is not the case in democratic countries.

Police all around the world use non-lethal force when the law is being broken and the perpetrator is not cooperative. This is absolutely not blind or extra-judicial. The whole point of this is to deter this kind of behaviour, and police are equipped with batons etc. for this reason.

> This is a) a slippery slope (a corrupt government would declare a curfew every time it wanted to stop protests)

I would agree if this was the case in this instance but this is not the case - there was a very obvious need for a curfew given the breakdown of law and order. Death, destruction of property, theft, loss of livelihoods. This is not what one expects in a civilized place.

Material wealth is a disingenuous framing. Someone's grocery shop is not accurately categorised as material wealth - it is their source of livelihood and it is a resource for the neighborhood. As President Obama pointed out in his letter, we all watched that poor old lady sobbing about the fact that she had nowhere else to go to buy groceries. To dismiss this kind of destruction as loss of material wealth is not at all accurate.

> Social equality movements have produced riots since time immemorial. Do you denounce the acts of Spartacus? The peasants revolt? The French revolution?

I denounce anyone who sets the shop of a small storekeeper or restauraunteur on fire, destroying their livelihood. You can go out into the streets and protest but this kind of behaviour is unconscionable and wrong. Setting fire to low income housing? How does this behavior help anyone? It's despicable. Your country can afford to build actual homes for low income folks while millions live in abject poverty and some rioter burns it down, and others justify it as a legitimate protest.

You can enact social change through all sorts of violence but it is most certainly not something that decent and civilized people ought to support. Everyone is rightfully furious at the incident that sparked this entire ordeal. The police presence on the streets was essential given the degree to which people were misbehaving and committing crimes.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#828

Post by fareesh » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 2:34 AM UTC

aaanotherhnfolk wrote: post #491

fareesh wrote: post #462

From what I understand, all of these people are breaking curfew and ignoring instructions to leave the area, and in some cases are acting belligerent when confronted, and this is happening at scale. Is the expectation that curfew is an order that should not be enforced in the strictest sense? From what I could see on the news, parts of your country were being burned down and looted by some rogue elements who used the…

Sorry things in your country are worse. Few issues with the straightforward narrative you present. Cops will slowly corral protestors as curfew draws near by setting up blockades or raising drawbridges. Peaceful protestors want to go home but can't. They're confused, and then curfew hits and police begin loading them into wagons. It's not as simple as get home by curfew. Cops will infiltrate and instigate protests us…

The status quo was broken in that there was occasional misbehavior by the police with no negative consequences.

It was not broken to the degree that there is rampant arson, theft, violence and murder.

In fact, until it became politically incorrect to say it - the narrative amongst the media and civil society was that people should stay home and stay safe because of the coronavirus pandemic. That was the immediate status quo.

There had been protests by groups who wanted to reopen their businesses to feed their kids, but those protests were met with warnings and lectures about how it is dangerous to do so.

Shortly after, people went out in droves, with no regard for public health or safety or law and order and looted businesses as some perverse act of protest and this seems to be glossed over.

There has obviously been a problem with policing in your country for a long time, and body cams were an attempt to improve the status quo. In fact, body cam footage will be used as evidence the case of the officers who murdered George Floyd. The officers were charged in the average number of days that it takes to do so. They will face a jury, not a disciplinary board.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#829

Post by dannypgh » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 2:34 AM UTC

wl wrote: post #672

hajile wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious that you've never even shot a gun before. Pistols aren't particularly accurate in a shooting range even if you take lots of time to aim. With a moving target, adrenaline, and all the other factors in an actual situation, you're going to be lucky if all your shots even make contact with the target. Where do you aim if you want to "shoot to incapacitate"? No such place exists on the body. Even using small,…

I assume you're referring to the death of Rayshard Brooks with your DUI comment. In that specific case, the police officer only shot once Brooks shot at him with the stolen taser. At that point, I suspect the argument he'd make is that he believed (rightly or wrongly) that his life was in imminent danger and he was ending that threat. I doubt he shot to apprehend the fleeing suspect, which would go against his traini…

You cannot incapacitate multiple people with a taser (once the rounds are in the first person it's unavailable to be fired again) and there were multiple cops there.

If the threat of a taser is a threat that warrants lethal force in self defense, the police are reaching for them far too quickly when they deal with people who are non-compliant. It takes very little provocation for most police officers to deploy their taser. I believe they are almost always used against unarmed people (armed people get shot, not tased).

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#830

Post by fareesh » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 2:46 AM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #478

fareesh wrote: post #462

From what I understand, all of these people are breaking curfew and ignoring instructions to leave the area, and in some cases are acting belligerent when confronted, and this is happening at scale. Is the expectation that curfew is an order that should not be enforced in the strictest sense? From what I could see on the news, parts of your country were being burned down and looted by some rogue elements who used the…

A lot of the time the police are simply acting in an unreasonable way, it’s not like the make a request and then attack after it’s not been complied with, no they just run and attack with no questions asked.

I've seen this apparently happen in a few videos but we don't know what transpired before filming. It's entirely possible that the officer and civilian met somewhere else 5 min earlier and the civilian was asked to go home.

That being said, I am 100% sure that what you are describing also happens, but I'm not so easily convinced that this is the vast majority of the cases captured on video.

For every murder, robbery, rape, etc. that has resulted in a conviction in the USA, there have been policemen involved to arrest and apprehend the criminals. In all of these instances the police have done their jobs and protected innocent civilians from dangerous criminals.

In many other cases, police officers have apparently abused their power and used excessive force on civilians, resulting in all kinds of trauma and often death.

This latter group is either unfit to do the job properly, or has made serious mistakes, or has intentionally inflicted harm on the public.

It feels like the conversation in the USA is being exaggerated to depict all police as brutish thugs with no regard for the welfare of the communities they are sworn to protect. That ironically is the same type of bigotry that many accuse the police of displaying towards some groups.