George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter • Hacker News Board

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#541

Post by watwut » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

krzyk wrote: post #370

watwut wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this would be the case, the rest would report the violent ones, would testify against them and violent ones would be removed. This would happen in cases where is no video and no public outcry. That it does not seem to be happening unless there is video and public outcry suggest the issue is cultural and institutional, not just individual. The good cop is not reporting bad cop and is not testifying against him. May…

Would you report your fellow in company that e.g. goes late to work? Or uses corporate assets (printer, laptop) for personal things? This is similar, if you know someone you have less incentive to report on one. The better you know them, the higher is the bar for reporting.

> Would you report your fellow in company that e.g. goes late to work? Or uses corporate assets (printer, laptop) for personal things?

If I reported that someone is using corporate assets (printer, laptop) for personal things, my manager would consider me crazy. If I reported someone being bit late, it would be the same.

That is exactly the culture thing. The corporate printer or laptop being used is not being seen as an issue by me, you or anybody else, regardless of what official rules say.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#542

Post by downerending » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:56 PM UTC

alex_young wrote: post #41

chrisco255 wrote: post #38

It's worth noting hundreds of police officers lose their life a year in the line of duty: https://www.odmp.org/search/year and many more than that receive serious injuries, even permanent spinal damage: One cop was paralyzed from the neck down in Vegas protests: https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/06/14/police-officer-shot-... Retired police chief killed at 77 by looters in St. Louis: https://thehill.com/homenews/state…

Policing is not a dangerous job. According to the FBI, which publishes the data in the Uniform Crime Reports, from 1980–2018, an average of 85 law enforcement officers were feloniously killed per year. In 2018 there were 686,665 police in the US.

I'm guessing that that cop in Vegas that was just paralyzed for life by some "protester" would not agree with you.

You don't have to be killed "feloniously" to be dead. And you don't have to be killed at all to have your life destroyed.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#543

Post by lazyjones » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:57 PM UTC

ses1984 wrote: post #525

lazyjones wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a clear attempt to manipulate opinion, I don't know why HN leaves it up. You could watch 100 videos of disgusting malpractices in restaurant kitchens and begin to think you should never eat in a restaurant again. If after watching carefully select and cut videos on a Twitter propaganda account you believe the police has a systemic issue, you're falling for the same trap. It's the same way media manipulate you…

>You could watch 100 videos of disgusting malpractices in restaurant kitchens and begin to think you should never eat in a restaurant again. What's the analogous conclusion from this to police brutality videos? You watch 100 and begin to think you should never talk to a cop again? Sure you can post up a bad conclusion to draw and then attack it. I'm pretty sure there's a name for this sort of thing.

> What's the analogous conclusion from this to police brutality videos? You watch 100 and begin to think you should never talk to a cop again?

You can do better than this rhetoric question. The analogous conclusion would be that there is a systemic issue with the police and you'd prefer not to deal with them again, by defunding or dissolving the police force (seems to be a current wish by many).

> Sure you can post up a bad conclusion to draw and then attack it. I'm pretty sure there's a name for this sort of thing.

Sure you can pretend it's a bad conclusion when it's about the effect of watching selected videos and how drawing any conclusions from that is naive.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#544

Post by ncallaway » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:58 PM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #126

ncallaway wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downvoted you because I live in a Seattle, and this question shows a ignorance of the facts: “Letting them take over entire city blocks as Seattle has done?”

A bare assertion followed by a bare refusal isn't much help. If you would instead provide some information, that would be a big help to all those of us who do not live in Seattle.

When other people have been downvoted, they complain that no reason was given.

I am doing the courtesy of telling you why I downvoted you.

If telling you why I downvoted you then also compels me to justify my position in an extended way, then I will not do it in the future. Instead I will just silently downvote when I feel it is warranted.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#545

Post by racnid » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #513

SamuelAdams wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why any footage of an incident used in court must include the entire interaction. Police body cam footage can be rejected as evidence if it does not start with the officer stepping out of his vehicle. This is why so many iPhone recordings from bystanders gets thrown out in trial. Are there instances where police abuse their power? Yes. Absolutely. But it doesn't help anyone when people are cherry picking inst…

Handcuffing a lifeless freshly shot body is more than enough. I’ve seen it over and over. Why is that a policy? Second, why shoot to kill and not to incapacitate? Shoot to kill is a policy. Why is that a policy? The police rule by fear. I’ve never broken the law and yet Im really affraid of cops in the US. I know I should not have a reason to but can’t help but be intimidated by their tactics, their orders, their dem…

1) Because "freshly shot lifeless" bodies can and have come back to kill people.

2) Because there is no such thing as shoot to wound. If you've gotten to the point where you're shooting at someone they need to be dead. Any bullet holes in your body are potentially fatal. Especially the famous leg shot; damage to your femoral artery will kill you extremely quickly.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#546

Post by Kye » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

qwertman wrote: post #529

[flagged]

It helps a lot if you show through your words that you're aware of all the existing informed discourse on these things. Poverty is the cause at one level of abstraction. It's well-known among people who think hard about racism.

The best summary I've found is The Case for Reparations: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-cas...

He doesn't actually call for reparations, but a lot of people dismissed it out of hand on that assumption.

It's an abridged list of where racism intersects with poverty over the last century or so, right up to the modern day. It's a long read, but you'll have a much better understanding of where people are coming from even if you still don't agree with them. I think he hoped people would read it and come to the conclusion that reparations are needed on their own. I did at least agree with his conclusion that more research is needed.

The anniversary of the bombing of Black Wall Street just passed, so pay special attention to the 1920s. The tools racists use change, but the effect remains.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#547

Post by hef19898 » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:00 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #437

bufferoverflow wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there are more than 400, we know that just by the number of people getting shot. Now, how many are unjustified? That's the important question.

> unjustified Every municipality has different rules for officer's conduct. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics (Part of the Federal US Department of Justice), there are 17,985 US police agencies, of which 15,400 departments govern the 39,044 distinct local governments and municipalities. These are further divided into autonomous administrative districts often referred to as precincts. The rules for officer…

The number of distinct police forces might already be a problem in itself.

Germany has 16 state level and one federal, plus customs (not legally a police force with a lot less jurisdiction)

France has two, Police national and Gendamerie.

Obviously a slight oversimplification when counting stuff like the BKA / LKA (maybe the German equivalent to the FBI?) as seperate bodies. But roughly across Europe you have two levels,local and federal. Both are reporting, one way or the other, to the respective Ministeries of the Interior. Quite adifference compared to the US, where the highest authority can be a mayor. or none, if I understood the thing with local Sherrifs correctly.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#548

Post by lazyjones » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:00 PM UTC

lvs wrote: post #539

lazyjones wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a clear attempt to manipulate opinion, I don't know why HN leaves it up. You could watch 100 videos of disgusting malpractices in restaurant kitchens and begin to think you should never eat in a restaurant again. If after watching carefully select and cut videos on a Twitter propaganda account you believe the police has a systemic issue, you're falling for the same trap. It's the same way media manipulate you…

I don't think society is looking for police to be an average good. That is, we're not looking to optimize on the statistical mean of police interactions. We are concerned particularly about the tails. The outliers are the problem, particularly when they're not as uncommon as we expect them to be. You may call them propaganda, but that's a strange thing to post on an enumerated list of recorded evidence.

> We are concerned particularly about the tails.

That's not my impression when people are openly calling for defunding or disbanding police departments. Those who are concerned with the tails are the sane voices drowning in a sea of insanity these days.

I agree that the outliers are the problem, but how uncommon they are cannot be determined in this way.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#549

Post by hobs » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:01 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #521

DeonPenny wrote: post #65

The fact that is even possible is insane. Imagine there being over 700 videos of pilots messing up in one month, 700 crane operator mishaps in a month, 700+ food poising by a chain in a month. The also imagine you believe there's no problem. This is Ba Sing Se levels of delusion for some people.

The delusion is on your side if you believe pilots, crane operators or any other profession is as much under surveillance as the police and as active dealing with risky situations that could escalate. Are you just trying to fool yourself with these comparisons or everybody?

There's no delusion on his side - there's additionally the acknowledgement that police have a much higher burden for said situations - and the videos show that they are not qualified to manage them.

"Oh well I guess its just really hard." Is NOT an answer.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#550

Post by _xnmw » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:02 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #517

kthejoker2 wrote: post #412

If there ever was a case of "don't comment unless you've RTFA" this it: people extrapolating their viewpoint on a list of 700 things from watching 1, 2, 3 ... At a minimum, watch 100 videos. I did last night, only took about an hour, it's easy to find some to nitpick, some which are ambiguous ... and plenty that are totally horrifying. If you can watch 100 videos in a row from Greg Doucette's list and say, "the milit…

This is a clear attempt to manipulate opinion, I don't know why HN leaves it up. You could watch 100 videos of disgusting malpractices in restaurant kitchens and begin to think you should never eat in a restaurant again. If after watching carefully select and cut videos on a Twitter propaganda account you believe the police has a systemic issue, you're falling for the same trap. It's the same way media manipulate you…

“Restaurants” are not a single institution with centralized authority. If you saw a 100 videos of the systematic malpractice in a single restaurant chain, you can bet that company would be shut down.