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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#821

Post by JoeAltmaier »

neutralid wrote: post #820
mozumder wrote: post #740

Libertarianism is probably the most accurate description of most white-male tech workers... lots of ideas that work in theory that fall apart once you actually meet real people.

The irony of your post getting downvoted instead of getting discussed further on a thread discussing how dissenting non-mainstream liberal views are disapproved of in SV. Appears like ideologues regardless of their affiliation enjoy suppressing dissenting views instead of discussing them further with people that have opposing views.

Downvoting doesn't mean 'suppressing dissenting views'. It means simple disagreement. Further we don't discuss voting in threads, according to site policy.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#822

Post by thraway2016 »

wolfram74 wrote: post #732
thraway2016 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should people be marginalized for their political opinions?

Reductio ad Absurdum, is it possible to have and advocate for an opinion detrimental enough that you should be marginalized for?

No, because "detrimental" is also a subjective judgement depending on whether one is a utilitarian, consequentialist, etc.

One man's heaven is another man's hell. There is no objectively correct political position, so establishing parameters on which specific opinions are to be found acceptable of marginalization is impossible.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#823

Post by croon »

lazugod wrote: post #770
Balgair wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hillary has had a very long career with many highs and many lows, so there really isn't a single reason anymore on why she is hated; many people have many reasons that may go back 30 years or more. Here are some google hits on why: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-womack/stop-pretending-y...

Are they good reasons? Should I be hating her?

No, but that wasn't the question. If we could run a collective by facts and optimal herd ideology, democracy would be obsolete.

The only thing we can do is understand WHY something happens, then try to work to change it (if it's bad, which is an entirely different can of worms of a problem).

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#824

Post by nec4b »

brianpgordon wrote: post #518
austenallred wrote: post #100

I moved to San Francisco from a very rural area (was working remotely from my father-in-law's farm), and there are a few things the liberals I work with simply do not understand about what's happening in "small-town America" (Disclaimer: I did not vote for Trump, and I don't consider myself a Republican). 1. People hate Hillary Clinton. Haaaate her. No, you think I'm saying they disagree with her politics, but you do…

> Things are tight, taxes are scary The economic angle is what I understand least about the Republican voter base. A core part of the Republican platform is that we should be cutting government services and programs in order to lower taxes. But these cuts disproportionately affect the poor. The whole point of these programs is to provide a social safety net for the most vulnerable. So I understand why the rich would…

It's called morality. Not taking what is not yours to take, when you can earn it yourself.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#825

Post by gerbilly »

Glyptodon wrote: post #368
Exofunctor wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not vote for Trump, but I couldn't help but feel a bit of schadenfreude at the reaction of my mostly very liberal friend group to his win. For months and months, they'd been unfairly denigrating Trump supporters while simultaneously insisting that he was a joke, there was no way he would beat Clinton, etc. and somehow convincing themselves that their political ideology was synonymous with science, truth, and re…

Oh man, I don't like Trump at all but it's so hard to resist enjoying the schadenfreude. I think my favorite part is the "nothing to hide" people who are now afraid of the surveillance state but couldn't have cared less about it before. I think the "science, truth, and reason" thing really resonates because it's been used to as a shortcut to presuming the "correctness" of anything vaguely left-wing in areas where thi…

>Likewise, there seems to suddenly be this notion that pretty much anybody who shows up whenever for whatever reason should just be allowed in to stay and work in America

Globalization promotes the free flow of capital, but not labour. This never seemed fair to me. It feels like a mechanism of exploitation.

Who _deserves_ to work in America more? Someone born into that country, or someone who left their whole life behind and made an long dangerous trip to get there?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#826

Post by Bartweiss »

hirsin wrote: post #793
Bartweiss wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I'm willing to listen ${them}, as long as they don't question ${sacred_cow}" More broadly, this seems to be how most of politics (especially recent American politics) operates on either side. Anything is open to debate and discussion as long as it doesn't seriously threaten to make someone change their behavior. You can even persuade someone to change their views, as long as their new views can support the thing t…

> What would make you change your position on ${issue} So, I gamed this out with myself, because it's a good idea. I had a couple that I can't find serious answers to - * Gay marriage - you'd need to show me that gay marriage actively destroys society. Show me relics of a village or civilization that went under because it had permissive LGBT rights. * Abortion - as with LGBT rights, you'd have to show me that a God e…

Interesting, thanks for taking a serious look at your answers! I have similar takes on those issues, so this is a thought-provoking one for me.

I wonder how you would feel about partial evidence on those points? Like, if someone could show that societies with permissive LGBT rights are consistently (and causatively) less successful, even if they aren't destroyed? I've certainly never seen such evidence, but I'm not sure where on "no harm" to "destroyed like Rome" my tipping point would be. Or - is the abortion point about non-personhood (maybe not applicable at 8.75 months) or bodily autonomy (applicable right up till birth)?

More generally, though: I think those are just places where you save some time by citing a moral basis. It's like arguing contraception with Catholics - you can skip right past AIDS rates and single parenthood by conceding that they think it's a mortal sin, and without changing that they'll never budge. So if someone wants to talk about traditional marriage or fetal pain or whatever else, you can skip ahead with "seriously, address this one issue or I'm going nowhere".

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#827

Post by Stubb »

saeranv wrote: post #185
austenallred wrote: post #100

I moved to San Francisco from a very rural area (was working remotely from my father-in-law's farm), and there are a few things the liberals I work with simply do not understand about what's happening in "small-town America" (Disclaimer: I did not vote for Trump, and I don't consider myself a Republican). 1. People hate Hillary Clinton. Haaaate her. No, you think I'm saying they disagree with her politics, but you do…

Thanks for sharing. Can you elaborate on #1. I never really understood the level of hatred Hillary received. To me she seemed like any other politician.

When you get a government security clearance, you sign an SF312 (non-disclosure agreement) where, among other things, you agree to safeguard classified information and acknowledge that you understand the criminal penalties for negligent handling.

Then she's caught sending & receiving classified info through a personal email server.

Any normal person would expect to land in jail immediately under those circumstances.

This isn't just unethical behavior, it's flat-out criminal.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#828

Post by Glyptodon »

gerbilly wrote: post #825
Glyptodon wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man, I don't like Trump at all but it's so hard to resist enjoying the schadenfreude. I think my favorite part is the "nothing to hide" people who are now afraid of the surveillance state but couldn't have cared less about it before. I think the "science, truth, and reason" thing really resonates because it's been used to as a shortcut to presuming the "correctness" of anything vaguely left-wing in areas where thi…

>Likewise, there seems to suddenly be this notion that pretty much anybody who shows up whenever for whatever reason should just be allowed in to stay and work in America Globalization promotes the free flow of capital, but not labour. This never seemed fair to me. It feels like a mechanism of exploitation. Who _deserves_ to work in America more? Someone born into that country, or someone who left their whole life be…

Deserve is a terrible and dangerous word.

Even the mere idea that jobs should be for the "deserving" sounds like some sort of weird cultist wet dream.

But maybe in the future we can get rid of borders and citizenship, establish a global government with a single labor market, and then allocate jobs to the "deserving" by going down a list of afflictions, awarding points for suffering, and then giving jobs to those who've suffered the most. It really sounds like a utopia.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#829

Post by iak8god »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #821
neutralid wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony of your post getting downvoted instead of getting discussed further on a thread discussing how dissenting non-mainstream liberal views are disapproved of in SV. Appears like ideologues regardless of their affiliation enjoy suppressing dissenting views instead of discussing them further with people that have opposing views.

Downvoting doesn't mean 'suppressing dissenting views'. It means simple disagreement. Further we don't discuss voting in threads, according to site policy.

Where is the policy "don't discuss voting in threads" outlined?

My personal policy is never to downvote just for simple disagreement. I upvote comments that I disagree with if I think they're making a quality contribution to the conversation. Downvotes are reserved for comments that are trivial, combative, insulting, or intentionally offensive.

For some reason I'd been assuming HN guidelines prescribed this approach to voting, but maybe I was thinking of reddiquette. In any case, it seems weird to drive-by downvote someone who's earnestly expressing their views when a reply would more clearly show that you disagree, and why.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#830

Post by edanm »

Frondo wrote: post #155
wildmusings wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confusing what should be legally allowed with what is moral.

I'm not saying calling for Thiel's ouster is right . But saying it shouldn't be allowed ? Screw that, I like my first amendment.

And I don't think anyone is saying it shouldn't be allowed, legally. We're saying, it's bad for society that this has become normal.

E.g. If you lived in a society that found adultery almost totally acceptible, You could think adultery is wrong, you could not like that society considers it acceptible, but you could still be against making it illegal.

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