What I Heard from Trump Supporters • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#151

Post by Animats » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:05 PM UTC

That's fascinating. What's striking is the absence of economic complaints. Much of the US, by area, is seeing jobs disappear and a gradually declining standard of living. Yet that's not what the Trump supporters Altman talked to are concerned about. There's not one mention of China. Loss of jobs due to foreign competition isn't mentioned.

There's also not much mention of religion. "God", "Christian", and "religion" didn't come up at all. Nor did race, in the black/white sense, come up much, except in the context of "white privilege".

Stopping abortion and the protection of American culture seem to be the crucial items for Trump supporters.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#152

Post by wwweston » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:05 PM UTC

Exofunctor wrote: post #29

shklnrj wrote: post #5

I think that when people "KNOW" that they are "RIGHT", it sometimes brings moral superiority into people. That, in addition to norms of socially acceptable behaviour, pushes people into a corner. For example - If someone goes to Bill Maher's show, anyone clapping on a conservative view point is seen as a criminal, while people with liberal point of view clap "together" as a group, with the smug arrogance of knowing t…

I did not vote for Trump, but I couldn't help but feel a bit of schadenfreude at the reaction of my mostly very liberal friend group to his win. For months and months, they'd been unfairly denigrating Trump supporters while simultaneously insisting that he was a joke, there was no way he would beat Clinton, etc. and somehow convincing themselves that their political ideology was synonymous with science, truth, and re…

> unfairly denigrating Trump supporters

Is there a way of fairly denigrating Trump supporters?

> For months and months, they'd been unfairly denigrating Trump supporters while simultaneously insisting that he was a joke, there was no way he would beat Clinton, etc. and somehow convincing themselves that their political ideology was synonymous with science, truth, and reason.

There may be liberal voters who make that conclusion of synonymeity, but to the extent that you're lumping it in with dismayed astonishment at Trump's candidacy, you're mischaracterizing both.

The position that Trump represents a completely bonkers low point and that opposition to him was synonymous with science, truth, and reason had (and has) a much higher frequency of occurrence vs the position that "liberal" politics presents a total/good view of the world.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#153

Post by mjevans » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:05 PM UTC

toss1941 wrote: post #24

mjevans wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the same is true for all of the political parties in the US. Everyone likes to feel that they are correct and refuses to consider that not only their viewpoint, but the calibration of society as a whole, might be (and I believe is, in the case of the US) out of balance and that thus perceptions are even further off than a gut feeling would conclude.

There is a very strong perception that if you are a conservative and you speak out either against left-wing views, someone will try to destroy your career and rob you of your livelihood. Take a look at a recent example of a teacher who made comments on Facebook about the #DayWithoutImmigrants[0]. Those parents who supported amnesty ascribed racism to what was an otherwise completely non-racist comment, and enough of…

That same fear exists whenever /anything/ contrary to the local community's predominant viewpoint is raised. You may think your community is different; you are very likely wrong about the way others perceive it.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#154

Post by CM30 » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:05 PM UTC

sxcurry wrote: post #78

Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

Except that the contrarian views frequently turn out to be lies, and I can't spend all my time debating lies. Please suggest a contrarian view that's worth discussing.

How about that it's not right to beat someone up because of their political views? Or that freedom of speech applies to unpopular speech just as much as that which you agree with?

Those are now unpopular, contrarian views at universities and what not.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#155

Post by Frondo » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:06 PM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #75

Frondo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't those widespread calls fall under the callers' freedom of speech? Why shouldn't they be able to call for Thiel's ouster? Why shouldn't I be able to call for shklnrj to be fired, so long as I do it through the usual public channels (e.g. are not harassing you or your workplace, etc)? Hopefully, your boss would dismiss me as a nutter. But hey, that's free speech in action.

I think you're confusing what should be legally allowed with what is moral.

I'm not saying calling for Thiel's ouster is right.

But saying it shouldn't be allowed? Screw that, I like my first amendment.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#156

Post by benbenolson » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:06 PM UTC

darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

This is exactly what the current top comment (by shklnrj) is talking about, and is one of the major reasons that Trump got elected. darkmouth here is doubling down on the exact same strategy that lead many away from liberalism this election cycle.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#157

Post by chubot » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:06 PM UTC

aorloff wrote: post #143

darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

> if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries What I'm hearing people saying is that they want a candidate who will talk about compassion for the economic futures of Americans. If you are barely making ends meet, you don't want a candidate talking about compassion for people from less fortunate countries, when out in the countryside of America you see a lot of people who could hardly be l…

Yes, this was in the feedback:

“I’d love to see one-tenth of the outrage about the state of our lives out here that you have for Muslims from another country. You have no idea what our lives are like.”

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#158

Post by darkmouth » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:06 PM UTC

aorloff wrote: post #143

darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

> if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries What I'm hearing people saying is that they want a candidate who will talk about compassion for the economic futures of Americans. If you are barely making ends meet, you don't want a candidate talking about compassion for people from less fortunate countries, when out in the countryside of America you see a lot of people who could hardly be l…

By less fortunate I mean people fleeing war. Refugees. If you think being in a war is same as being poor in the US, you're mistaken.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#159

Post by true_religion » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:06 PM UTC

orbitur wrote: post #92

gedy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I read a casually racist opinion from a red tribe member or hear another xenophobic policy proposed by Trump and swing right back to a. I understand and respect that - but my friends who do that seem to also turn a blind eye to riots and beatings from folks "the left". There just seems to be a lot of double standards with saying fringe wackos on one side represent the entire group, but not the the side.

> but my friends who do that seem to also turn a blind eye to riots and beatings from folks "the left" Yes, those "left" beatings get zero widespread cultural support. Violence is not glorified by any prominent voices on the left. Whereas racist and sexist voices on the right make a boatload of money and fill up the comments of every news article posted to Facebook. It's cultural.

Radicals on your own 'side' are difficult to distinguish, and even harder to repudiate because they constantly say things where you agree with 95% of the content, or most of the underpinnings of their reasoning.

For a liberal, its' easy to write off Glen Beck when he says Obama is a fascist for taking particular action. However, it is difficult to write off the Huffington Post, when they say Trump is a fascist for rolling back the previous administrations 'reform' (thus returning us to the hell-world of laws existing in 2007).

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#160

Post by cylinder » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:06 PM UTC

Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

Same thing, even with long-time friends, if I am trying to counter their hysteria (they're reading and sharing "fake news," too, and I just want to point out the inaccuracy of their statements or test them with logic, I'm called an "alt-right fascist."

Honestly, the level of discourse in this country is an absolute joke. It doesn't matter what side you are on.