What I Heard from Trump Supporters • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#71

Post by johansch » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:53 PM UTC

paskster wrote: post #10

I like this quote so much and I love that it stands out: “You all can defeat Trump next time, but not if you keep mocking us, refusing to listen to us, and cutting us out. It’s Republicans, not Democrats, who will take Trump down.” I believe we have a similar problem in Germany. Several political decisions where called "alternativlos" (having not alternative option) and everybody opposing them was basically labeled a…

Very similar situation in Sweden as well.

Just saw this chart a few hours ago; it would be interesting to see something similar for the US:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/02/07/british-press-most-righ...

(Just look at Germany/Sweden there!)

Chart title: "Media bias in Europe: Percentage of adults in each country who say their media is too right wing on the following issues minus the percentage who say their media is too left wing"

It's a year old, but I don't think this has changed much since then in terms of media bias.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#72

Post by grzm » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:53 PM UTC

golemotron wrote: post #61

It's interesting that HN is not for political discussion except when it is for political discussion.

Will you elaborate on this? What's interesting about it?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#73

Post by Broken_Hippo » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:53 PM UTC

panic wrote: post #6

RangerScience wrote: post #2

The #1 difference I notice between people I talk to who identify as the "left" or the "right" is whether America is an inclusive or exclusive "club". Also, main takeaway from this? Don't attack people. It seems like that's a big complaint from the[se] people: I've been attacked for my beliefs and values.

It can be hard to separate criticism from an attack. If you say something racist, and I tell you so, is that an attack?

Unfortunately, both yes and no. The word has become near profanity now and is often used as an insult rather than a statement.

The reaction of, "How is it racist?" can be taken as a defense even if it is an honest question.

Luckily, words are amazing and there are ways to diffuse this stuff. "I think some folks might find that insensitive, you know" might be better wording than "That was rather racist" - even though I might prefer the more direct version. Likewise, the response can be reworded for different effect as well.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#74

Post by phkahler » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:53 PM UTC

shklnrj wrote: post #5

I think that when people "KNOW" that they are "RIGHT", it sometimes brings moral superiority into people. That, in addition to norms of socially acceptable behaviour, pushes people into a corner. For example - If someone goes to Bill Maher's show, anyone clapping on a conservative view point is seen as a criminal, while people with liberal point of view clap "together" as a group, with the smug arrogance of knowing t…

>> Liberal ideology should not be used as a fashion statement. Unfortunately it seems to be used that way today. What do you guys think?

I've often wondered how many people voted for Obama just to prove to the world that they are not racist. Or in other words to show their moral superiority. I think the same dynamic was in play with Hillary - all she talked about is how "we'll make history" meaning "let's show them how forward thinking the nation has become that we can elect a woman president". IMHO backlash against that crap is exactly why Trump won, and I've had several people confirm that.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#75

Post by wildmusings » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:53 PM UTC

Frondo wrote: post #50

shklnrj wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there were widespread calls by people to push even Peter Thiel out of silicon valley positions which he holds just because he supported a candidate. His fault - He supported a guy publicly! Even he was seen as criminal. Forget about the average Joe. That's why people wanted confidentiality agreements!

Don't those widespread calls fall under the callers' freedom of speech? Why shouldn't they be able to call for Thiel's ouster? Why shouldn't I be able to call for shklnrj to be fired, so long as I do it through the usual public channels (e.g. are not harassing you or your workplace, etc)? Hopefully, your boss would dismiss me as a nutter. But hey, that's free speech in action.

I think you're confusing what should be legally allowed with what is moral.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#76

Post by camdenlock » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:53 PM UTC

None of this is particularly surprising, but it is sobering to hear it from the horse's mouth. Insane racist sexists didn't win this election for Trump; dogma did.

One can no longer openly discuss certain extremely important topics (is there something inherently wrong with Islam as a belief system? Is Black Lives Matter doing good or bad things? Are women really paid less than men for performing the same work?) without risking their career and social life. Not because one is an awful person for asking awful questions. On the contrary, these are conversations we need to be having rationally and deeply, learning and growing from having them.

No, the threat of ruin comes from the religion of moral sanctimony we've allowed to flourish within our society. If you question the dogma of social justice, you will be lynched on social media and branded a bigot, a racist, a sexist, and so on.

Pretty sure those of us who aren't members of the church are just really fucking tired of this behavior, and unfortunately it's that very fatigue which seems to be one of the factors which drove people to vote for a truly awful leader.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#77

Post by benchaney » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:54 PM UTC

jdblair wrote: post #15

One thing that jumped out for me is the pervasiveness of white fragility. For example: Stop being politically correct. I'm white but I'm not privileged. Stop calling us racists. If you're not familiar with this term, White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress be- comes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger,…

I'm not sure I buy this argument. In my experience, many people in the left try to shut down any disagreement by using privilege as a red herring. It's silly to expect people to accept that. It's even sillier to diagnose resistance to that as some kind of endemic societal issue

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#78

Post by sxcurry » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:54 PM UTC

Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

Except that the contrarian views frequently turn out to be lies, and I can't spend all my time debating lies. Please suggest a contrarian view that's worth discussing.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#79

Post by istorical » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:54 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #11

This one (from the "What don't you like about him?" section) I thought was the most striking: > “I, too, worry about the dishonesty. His relationship with Russia, his relationship with women. His relationship with questionable financial matters. These all worry me and were they to continue I would lose all respect.” All that stuff was covered extensively during the election. There's no reason for it to be a different…

> This is a rationalization of regret, it's not the result of a new decision-making process.

You're missing the point. These voters chose him despite those weaknesses because they prioritized other issues more highly. Their decision making processes involved looking at both pro's and con's and the other pro's outweighed those con's.

Making the blanket assumption that a vote for a candidate is an endorsement of _all_ of their positions is exactly what the quotes in the post complain about.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#80

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:55 PM UTC

shklnrj wrote: post #33

dwringer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's an inaccurate assessment. If someone at such a show holds a minority viewpoint and doesn't want to be the only person clapping, that is up to them. I have never seen a contemporary domestic example of the attitude you describe, of someone like that being "seen as a criminal", except at Donald Trump rallies.

Well there were widespread calls by people to push even Peter Thiel out of silicon valley positions which he holds just because he supported a candidate. His fault - He supported a guy publicly! Even he was seen as criminal. Forget about the average Joe. That's why people wanted confidentiality agreements!

[deleted]