U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#811

Post by landryraccoon » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 4:32 AM UTC

vmh1928 wrote: post #761

landryraccoon wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adverse possession generally doesn’t apply to land owned by a sovereign. You cannot claim adverse possession against the United States, or against the state of Oklahoma, not even after squatting for many years. The Creek nations could be considered sovereign in this case, since they were party to a treaty with the United States.

Here's a case where it took 15 years of court action to get someone off of a parcel of land in Tempe, AZ that was part AZ State land and part City of Tempe. The man claimed his family had been occupying the land since at least 1877 and claimed ownership via adverse possession. If you hit a paywall just search on "tempe squatter". https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2020/03/10/...

The article says that the court found in favor of the state and the man had to vacate the land. That sounds like adverse possession wasn't enough to fight off the state when they wanted the land back.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#812

Post by on_and_off » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 4:35 AM UTC

genericone wrote: post #691

beenBoutIT wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to stop our neverending war on drugs is a Constitutional amendment that guarantees every American the right to consume anything they want for any reason. In the next several decades there will be un unprecedented number of elderly Americans living below the poverty line with no pension and medical issues they can't afford to fix - euthanasia will become something of a nuclear option that they'll want ava…

Within reason right? I'm hoping that 'the right to consume anything they want for any reason' wouldn't include those things that cause sudden violent behavior and inability to feel fear and pain. I forget which particular drug does this, but a search brought me to meth and I found this article which says people feel 'invincible' and 'paranoid' and can't be stopped with non-lethal means. https://www.cpr.org/2020/02/05…

do you want to ban alcohol ?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#813

Post by sytelus » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 4:35 AM UTC

ISL wrote: post #49

I found the conclusion compelling. I haven't yet had enough time this morning to read the dissent thoughtfully. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/18-9526_9okb.pdf "The federal government promised the Creek a reservation in perpetuity. Over time, Congress has diminished that reservation. It has sometimes restricted and other times expanded the Tribe’s authority. But Congress has never withdrawn the promised…

Wait, so congress can throw away promises at its whims that was supposed to last until perpetuity? And SC will be fine with that as long as promise was thrown away explicitly?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#814

Post by sonofaplum » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 4:36 AM UTC

shpongled wrote: post #549

fmajid wrote: post #363

Sometimes Supreme Court justices will surprise you. Justice Gorsuch is from the American West, and has proven to be a strong and consistent advocate for Native American rights in the Supreme Court, just as Justice Scalia was for the Fourth Amendment.

This comment just demonstrates your political biases, that's all. I don't know why you would be surprised that Gorsuch or Scalia would be in favor of freedoms for the people.

None of the other conservatives on the court agreed with the decision, so it's reasonable to be surprised. Alito is probably the current judge closest to Scalia and he dissented, so it's reasonable to be surprised. Why would you assume political bias?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#815

Post by ricardo81 » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 4:38 AM UTC

Klinky wrote: post #792

keith__talent wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is this 'we' you reference? Many people came to the US long after the Trail of Tears. Are they responsible for crimes committed on Native Americans before they or their ancestors/families arrived in a recognized (at the time of arrival) Sovereign Country. Would be interested in your justification for holding citizens of today's US responsible for an event that happened more than 100 years ago, before they lived o…

"We", as in, "the country". It's part of the history and foundation of the country you agreed to become a citizen of. The nation of today is not isolated from it's past. Much benefit was gained from injustices of the past. What is the just thing to do? Sweep it under the rug and act like it didn't matter? What kind of values are those?

>sweep it under the carpet

As a European (Scot) who lived in Canada with my partner (Ojibwe) it became obvious how ignorant I was of the past wrt all Native American tribes and the indoctrination they were subjected to.

I'd mentioned to her that during this BLM movement that the African-American story is seemingly world-known but the Native American story less so. I believe their time will come when there is a greater understanding. Not an expert but my time living on the reserve but it seemed apparent that their society was still experiencing culture shock.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#816

Post by hehehbbbnd » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 4:39 AM UTC

dfee wrote: post #758

_se wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that people live there doesn't make it desirable. People will always defend where they live. Don't be naive.

I highly encourage the OP to make this point, too.

If they’re anything like you, they’re just as worthless trash.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#817

Post by abqio » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 4:39 AM UTC

phaedryx wrote: post #487

abqio wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No thank you. As someone who lives in one of those states this is a worrying precedent. Maybe if their laws didn't apply to me as a non citizen I would be ok with this. As it is, I can be arrested for stopping at the wrong gas station with a firearm in my car. I have no choice but to pass through reservations on a regular basis. And I have no input in the government that makes their laws. Nor any hope of ever being h…

Doesn't this just change things from state level to federal? You still are a US citizen and you still have input in the government. This seems like the same situation as when someone goes through multiple states?

Yes and no. To expand on the firearm example:

When on federal or state land, I only have to comply with the state's laws. (Basically just don't shoot or threaten anyone.) When on reservation land, I'm protected under the FOPA[0] which is considerably more restrictive. Some of its provisions can be hard to meet. Especially in a two seater pickup truck.

Add checkerboarding[1] to this and it can be very easy to make a mistake because you're constantly changing jurisdictions. Usually with no fence or signage.

I don't want to get into it here but there are a number of reasons one might want a readily accessible firearm when the nearest civilization is ~100 miles away.[2] Hence why one might not always be compliant with FOPA.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act#...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checkerboarding_(land)

[2] A benign example would be hitting a cow.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#818

Post by airstrike » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 4:41 AM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #809

scoopertrooper wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't study 9th grade Oklahoma history, so maybe you could enlightened me. I did a bit of googling and it seems that Oklahoma wasn't suitable for large scale agriculture till the 2oth century when innovative farming techniques were developed. Is this not correct?

That is only correct according to what agricultural products you wish to produce. In a purely English traditional style of growing grain in small plowed earth plots you are likely correct, which is a largely ethnocentric view of agriculture.

Well, if it is correct from the perspective of the Americans who were conceding the land, then it's as correct as it needs to be for the purposes of this discussion.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#819

Post by riquito » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 4:45 AM UTC

keith__talent wrote: post #783

jake_morrison wrote: post #747

We have to recognize how much we screwed over the Native Americans. We took away their prime land on the East coast. We gave them some shitty land in Oklahoma that we didn't think we would ever want. We made them walk there in the "Trail of Tears", and lots of them died along the way. Then we decided to screw them out of the land in Oklahoma after all, but didn't go though the process properly because we didn't think…

Who is this 'we' you reference? Many people came to the US long after the Trail of Tears. Are they responsible for crimes committed on Native Americans before they or their ancestors/families arrived in a recognized (at the time of arrival) Sovereign Country. Would be interested in your justification for holding citizens of today's US responsible for an event that happened more than 100 years ago, before they lived o…

> Would be interested in your justification for holding citizens of today's US responsible for an event that happened more than 100 years ago, before they lived or breathed.

Of course they are responsible, who else should be if not the one who are getting the historical benefits?

Do you use "we" in your country only to refer to the good parts of your history, or up to the day you set foot on it?

Do you think countries' debt should be cancelled every 50 year or so?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#820

Post by sytelus » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 4:45 AM UTC

The story is quite stunning. So a child molester convicted in 1997 and in prison for 20 years wants to get out of jail. So he seems to have hired some extra ordinary attorney who simply couldn’t find any way to get him out. And one day he finally hits upon this idea of land supposed to be tribal land 100s of years ago! The brilliant idea, indeed. And now half of the state will suddenly become tribal land because of this one guy trying to get out and this one lawyer who dug this out.