U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#551

Post by dguaraglia » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 9:21 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #156

calvinmorrison wrote: post #128

"We reject that thinking. If Congress wishes to withdraw its promises, it must say so." As with so many controversial court rulings like the ACA mandate case, our courts keep getting put into the decision because of the massive failure that congress is. Congress should either fulfill the promise or not, or whatever. instead the judicial bodies end up making legal judgements with big ramifcations that largely should b…

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

> They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into uselessness.

If Congressional lockdown was useless, it would've been fixed. Clearly, there's plenty of interests that favor a Congress/Senate that isn't able to move legislation forward.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#552

Post by NearAP » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #411

ddingus wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. The natives deserve a fair shake and the land is roomy enough for people to get along and work together. Forcing that is a damn good thing. The USA has a lot to account for, and it is very sick. Rough roads ahead. Maybe they lead to better places. I do not feel good about the last 4 or so decades of travel. As a people, maybe world, we may well be better for going down this road.

For the record I have a brother living on a native reservation. I am well aware of exactly how horrible our past and continuing treatment of the natives have been. And strongly support fixing our ongoing treatment of them. However I also strongly believe that our future prosperity is based more on current actions than past circumstances. And therefore believe that attempts to redress long past ills are actively harmf…

...On a side note, it is a little shocking to me that so many support a decision in favor of a man who was convicted of sodomizing a 4 year old child.....

I do not believe people are supporting the 'individual' in question but are focusing on the principle that was argued. In addition, this person can be retried in Federal courts

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#553

Post by rukittenme » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #512

ekam wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two wrongs don’t make a right

It isn't two wrongs, it's a wrong and the recognition of a right.

The recognition of what right? How is it right to govern without consent? Take a moment to consider that the world can not go back to 1950 as some Republicans would like and it can not go back to 1850 as apparently some Democrats would like.

You believe its right to subject a person who lives in Oklahoma, who has never lived in a country other than the USA, who has never stolen anyone's land, to the non-representative rule of a person (who's land was never stolen) because of their racial origin?

I'm very interested in the ideology that led you to these beliefs.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#554

Post by shpongled » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

zetazzed wrote: post #301

From the actual opinion: "Oklahoma replies that its situation is different because the affected population here is large and many of its residents will be surprised to find out they have been living in Indian country this whole time. But we imagine some members of the 1832 Creek Tribe would be just as surprised to find them there." Damn, nice shade, Gorsuch! https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/18-9526_9okb.pd…

Gorsuch is definitely my favorite Justice. His opinions are always fun to read. You know when the words "Trail of Tears" appear in the first sentence of a decision that things aren't going to turn out well for the government...

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#555

Post by shpongled » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

jtlienwis wrote: post #431

"Unlawful acts, performed long enough and with sufficient vigor, are never enough to amend the law. To hold otherwise would be to elevate the most brazen and longstanding injustices over the law, both rewarding wrong and failing those in the right." Courts need to apply the above to Article 1, Section 10 of the US Constitution, as well as the 10th and 2nd amendment.

I agree, it's far past time to remove California's unconstitutional gun laws.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#556

Post by beenBoutIT » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

rudolph9 wrote: post #528

dr_dshiv wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen. This isn't a nonsequitor, I swear: why can't freedom of religion be used to legalize drugs? And, why can't Indian reservations, especially, sell what they please?

I think use of regulated drugs is legal during a religious service https://www.pewforum.org/2006/02/21/supreme-court-rules-that... And, again I think, reservations are exempt from state laws/taxes and to certain extent able to make/enforce their own laws/taxes but they still need to follow federal laws.

The only way to stop our neverending war on drugs is a Constitutional amendment that guarantees every American the right to consume anything they want for any reason. In the next several decades there will be un unprecedented number of elderly Americans living below the poverty line with no pension and medical issues they can't afford to fix - euthanasia will become something of a nuclear option that they'll want available as a last resort. An amendment that guarantees the right to consume any plant/drug/chemical/etc. will have a chance if it's bundled with a 'right to die with dignity', allowing elderly individuals a euthanasia option.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#557

Post by rudolph9 » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #278

busterarm wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this is demonstrably untrue. The 115th (2017-2018)[1] Congress had both a Republican House and Senate and it got extremely little done. Our Congress is completely ineffective. [1]:Fixed.

How much activity do you expect from a party whose organizing principle is to shrink government small enough to be drowned in a bathtub?

I wish people could take a step back from the “shrink government” debate and focus on making laws more effective and efficient.

I could write a piece of code that adds two numbers but takes two days and all available memory to compute the result.

A lot of laws are on all levels of government from both sides of the isle are well intentioned but the costs surrounding the laws are prohibitive.

That doesn’t imply we need less laws, that doesn’t imply we don’t have enough laws, it means we need to take a hard look at where the bottlenecks are and streamline the process and to achieve the desired result.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#558

Post by yepguy » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

seehafer wrote: post #295

war1025 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

Madison thought it highly unlikely that people who held immense power would not choose to use it. The Framers' model (and fear) was Rome, and much of our Constitutional design is intended to prevent an American Caesar. (One of the reasons Washington was universally revered was because he acted so contrary to what everyone thought was human nature.) "Ambition must be made to counteract ambition" he tells us in Federal…

Well, Congress is only able to abdicate their responsibility because we have departed from our "Constitutional design." All 3 branches now write law, not to mention other unelected government agencies, so Congress is now free to avoid doing their job and point the finger at someone else instead.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#559

Post by inputError » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 9:30 PM UTC

shpongled wrote: post #554

zetazzed wrote: post #301

From the actual opinion: "Oklahoma replies that its situation is different because the affected population here is large and many of its residents will be surprised to find out they have been living in Indian country this whole time. But we imagine some members of the 1832 Creek Tribe would be just as surprised to find them there." Damn, nice shade, Gorsuch! https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/18-9526_9okb.pd…

Gorsuch is definitely my favorite Justice. His opinions are always fun to read. You know when the words "Trail of Tears" appear in the first sentence of a decision that things aren't going to turn out well for the government...

Haha, yeah I love how he upheld that states can use lethal injection even if they can't get the right ingredients, what a baller.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#560

Post by knodi123 » Thu, Jul 09, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

ISL wrote: post #49

I found the conclusion compelling. I haven't yet had enough time this morning to read the dissent thoughtfully. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/18-9526_9okb.pdf "The federal government promised the Creek a reservation in perpetuity. Over time, Congress has diminished that reservation. It has sometimes restricted and other times expanded the Tribe’s authority. But Congress has never withdrawn the promised…

> Unlawful acts, performed long enough and with sufficient vigor, are never enough to amend the law

And yet "adverse possession" allows my neighbor to keep a slice of my yard, because he build the fence shortly before I bought the house (while it was unoccupied!) and I assumed it was proper after I moved in, and now that I've had a survey done and realized his fence is 5' off target, it's too late because he officially owns it!

I understand the difference, but I feel like it would be more proper to say "Unlawful acts performed long ago, are hardly ever enough to amend the law."