U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#751

Post by eqvinox » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 2:36 AM UTC

modmans2nd wrote: post #665

EE84M3i wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Court has only decided that the federal government has no prosecutorial jurisdiction against citizens of the so-called "Five Civilized Tribes" in about half of OK" The issue at hand was state government prosecutorial jurisdication , not federal. From the article: Under U.S. law, tribe members who commit crimes on tribal land cannot be prosecuted in state courts and instead are subject to federal prosecution, whi…

Yes, that was the question at hand but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have implications for lots of other things that the courts will have to clarify now.

There actually is very little for the court to clarify; reservations exist in lots of other places and the procedures and handling are well established. The unclear part that has been resolved is whether this century-old agreement for those swaths of Oklahoma is still in force, and apparently it is, so it's a reservation. From there on it's procedural copypasta.

The only possibly-unclear thing I see is reimbursement of recently paid state taxes by tribe members, I think they can claim back some.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#752

Post by greyface- » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 2:37 AM UTC

bigtones wrote: post #584

dr_dshiv wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen. This isn't a nonsequitor, I swear: why can't freedom of religion be used to legalize drugs? And, why can't Indian reservations, especially, sell what they please?

Indian Reservations still have to abide by Federal Law (which the ruling today affirmed) and selling of 'drugs' is illegal at the Federal level. They can use them in a religious service, but they can't sell them.

This hasn't stopped states from permitting the sale of cannabis.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#753

Post by twsttest » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 2:38 AM UTC

Why do we encourage the existence of Native American reservations?

They are basically miniature Ethnostates. They go against the entire liberal narrative of diversity. Not only this, they keep Natives isolated from the rest of America.

It is time the Reservations were dismantled and natives join with the rest of America.

The Americas are not any more Native land than America the country is a white country. The same reasoning that is used to chastise Europeans for settling in North America is the same reasoning white nationalists use to rationalize excluding non whites from America. "This is MY land, you can't come here".

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#754

Post by dfee » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 2:41 AM UTC

jake_morrison wrote: post #747

We have to recognize how much we screwed over the Native Americans. We took away their prime land on the East coast. We gave them some shitty land in Oklahoma that we didn't think we would ever want. We made them walk there in the "Trail of Tears", and lots of them died along the way. Then we decided to screw them out of the land in Oklahoma after all, but didn't go though the process properly because we didn't think…

> We gave them some shitty land in Oklahoma

Interesting sentiment. As someone who grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, I think you should go there and tell the people who live there your thoughts.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#755

Post by throwaway287391 » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 2:42 AM UTC

landryraccoon wrote: post #727

ponker wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Gorsuch's opinion does directly imply is that the "promise" to the Creek can be revoked by Congress at any time, i.e. it's hardly a "promise" at all.

I’m curious if you can give an example of a promise that cannot ever be revoked?

It’s a good question — if anything I’d think that a promise is revocable by definition. If there’s no trust involved it’s not so much a promise as...collateral, or something?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#756

Post by david38 » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 2:42 AM UTC

jeffdavis wrote: post #722

beenBoutIT wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to stop our neverending war on drugs is a Constitutional amendment that guarantees every American the right to consume anything they want for any reason. In the next several decades there will be un unprecedented number of elderly Americans living below the poverty line with no pension and medical issues they can't afford to fix - euthanasia will become something of a nuclear option that they'll want ava…

Good idea. How about: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." That would keep the pesky federal government out of our personal affairs.

Sure, but then federal support of state projects gets tied to whatever the federal government wants the state to do. The state isn’t bound, but it’s political suicide to turn down money.

This is a powerful weapon that can be used for both good and bad.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#757

Post by _se » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 2:45 AM UTC

dfee wrote: post #754

jake_morrison wrote: post #747

We have to recognize how much we screwed over the Native Americans. We took away their prime land on the East coast. We gave them some shitty land in Oklahoma that we didn't think we would ever want. We made them walk there in the "Trail of Tears", and lots of them died along the way. Then we decided to screw them out of the land in Oklahoma after all, but didn't go though the process properly because we didn't think…

> We gave them some shitty land in Oklahoma Interesting sentiment. As someone who grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, I think you should go there and tell the people who live there your thoughts.

The fact that people live there doesn't make it desirable. People will always defend where they live. Don't be naive.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#758

Post by dfee » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 2:47 AM UTC

_se wrote: post #757

dfee wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We gave them some shitty land in Oklahoma Interesting sentiment. As someone who grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, I think you should go there and tell the people who live there your thoughts.

The fact that people live there doesn't make it desirable. People will always defend where they live. Don't be naive.

I highly encourage the OP to make this point, too.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#759

Post by Reelin » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 2:47 AM UTC

jeffdavis wrote: post #722

beenBoutIT wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to stop our neverending war on drugs is a Constitutional amendment that guarantees every American the right to consume anything they want for any reason. In the next several decades there will be un unprecedented number of elderly Americans living below the poverty line with no pension and medical issues they can't afford to fix - euthanasia will become something of a nuclear option that they'll want ava…

Good idea. How about: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." That would keep the pesky federal government out of our personal affairs.

The interstate commerce clause made for a fine end run around the spirit of that bit in the end.

If we do ever manage to address the interstate commerce clause, we'll have to account for the fact that our day to day functioning has come to depend on a number of large federal regulatory bodies whose legitimacy is derived from it (ex FDA, FCC, etc).

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#760

Post by ByteJockey » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 2:51 AM UTC

munificent wrote: post #521

lghh wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, unlike cities which house only the most pure of thought.

This is an "affirming the consequent" logical fallacy. My sentence says nothing about the virtue or vice of cities. I'm responding to "Some people don't like the rural states". Almost no one dislikes rural states for their natural beauty. They dislike them for the people. Whether that dislike is morally wrong, or whether they should also dislike urban areas is irrelevant to my claim. All I was observing is that the p…

I think making a blanket statement might be incorrect. I've heard a lot of people who dislike rural areas for their lack of people. That is to say, lack of amenities, entertainment, cultural events, etc that can only be had in a dense area with surplus people.

I'm not sure which reason is the majority, or if there even is a majority.