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Pardon Snowden

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Re: Pardon Snowden

#811
post #244
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should be condoning it. For that, a lot of things would have to change first though, like, for example, the community has to come to the realization that the (supposed) ends do not justify the means and that it's therefore the right thing to do to whistle-blow about them. They also need to realize that the internal mechanisms to whistle-blow are "not effective", to say the least.

You think every IT person in the government should have the ability to disclose any Top Secret programs based only on their own personal opinions about their legality?

No, I think legality - in this case - should be pretty clear.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#812
post #81
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he would have a tragic car accident, or commit suicide.

It's a shame you're being downvoted for something that's entirely possible.

Maybe it's still news to some people that there's plenty of precedent for that? For every Litvinenko there is 100s or 1000s that died in more subtle ways.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's a nut because...?

I didn't read everything, because the universe is still young, but randomly clicking got to this [0] in which this self-proclaimed expert, in stereotypical fashion, veers wildly between claiming secret knowledge that proves him right, claiming that everything important that Snowden released was already well-known, claiming that Snowden's releases harmed USA, and an idiosyncratic form of definite-article-based hermene…

I don't think a Twitter back-and-forth means much of anything. Go read five or ten of Schindler's articles on his site, then tell me that he's candy-bar-nutty.

I mean, good grief, he's not only a former NSA counterintelligence officer, he's a published World War I historian, former Naval Reserve officer, and a professor at the War College. He may be biased (and you certainly are!), but by no means is he a nut. What is nutty is to call him one, and with your having done that, I can't take you seriously.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that people who have domain expertise about classified information are different from people claiming "secret knowledge." He overstates his case in some circumstances, and I think that there were positive effects of the publicization of some of of the Snowden data, but it's also tough to dispute, I think, that his releases also harmed the United States. I'm happy to expand on this if you need.

Those inside the national security apparatus often seem to have difficulty differentiating harm to national security apparatchiks from harm to the nation itself. Many of us outside, don't have that difficulty. As Greenwald tweeted, "My sources are the documents and - I know this is shocking - people who don't work for the US Govt" Also, the big idea that the releases revealed nothing previously unknown directly contr…

> Those inside the national security apparatus often seem to have difficulty differentiating harm to national security apparatchiks from harm to the nation itself.

Are you an American? I think it's is relevant to this conversation. Because if you're not, I couldn't care less what you think about this. From a non-American's perspective, it's an internal matter. You don't like America spying on other nations? I have news for you: your nation does the same thing. Espionage is the second-oldest profession. If you don't like what the NSA does in foreign SIGINT, take the plank out of your own eye first. (And then enjoy the few years your nation has left before its newfound weakness allows it to be destroyed.)

If you are an American, then I implore you to cast off your leftist, anti-American shackles and think for yourself. No nation is perfect, and there are plenty of problems in our government--that's the whole point of America to begin with, to compartmentalize and restrain government so it can't abuse the People! But this idea that America is now the source of evil in the world is a false narrative; plainly, a lie.

It's unacceptable for the DNI to lie to the People and to Congress, and it's unacceptable for any agency of the government to violate the law, of which the Constitution is the highest. However, that does not change the fact that Snowden's actions did harm American interests abroad and endanger the lives of American men and women working in harm's way.

Even if there was a part of Snowden that thought he was whistleblowing on domestic violations (which looks increasingly unlikely, especially given that he didn't even try to use the existing whistleblower apparatus), his actions were not solely that. He has defected to Russia, which is posturing itself as an enemy of the U.S., and he is now cooperating with their intelligence agencies. Even if he did expose illegal domestic activities, he also committed treason.

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