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Pardon Snowden

pardonsnowden.org

241–250 of 814 posts

Re: Pardon Snowden

#241

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

In socialist countries... they sign it all for you already.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#242
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're allowed your quota of one medium-impact dissident action per week, just like everyone else. As it helps to keep up maintaining the illusion of democracy and free speech, you are actually doing your country a great service. If you start to do more, however... Consider yourself warned. ^^ In this case, I can reassure you though: Online petition clicktivism has been shown to be very ineffective, so it's only cons…

I "love" how China actually tried to formalize this some time ago. Every citizen would get a citizen score, like our credit ratings, but grading how politically loyal they were. There was quite a bit of outrage on the western internet about this. The "funny" thing is, our governments are probably doing very similar things (though still to a lesser degree, and secretly). A big difference is that China often doesn't ha…

The MTA's "See something, say something" campaign in NYC always kind of comes off sounding dystopian to me.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#243

I cannot sign this. I'm happy there is a debate over our privacy, and the information has come to light, but I still believe this man to be a traitor and he should be punished. A pardon is out of the question.

When I read this, it always makes me wonder what is going through your mind: Being a traitor does not mean someone is wrong or deserving of punishment. The implication is that a person's country is always right, and also that if he had been a Russian spy, he would have been a patriot. No. Right and wrong are not governed by national borders and laws.

Well, except in law of course. Then, traitor == wrong and deserving of punishment. Its in the US constitution in fact.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#244
post #52

Whatever your opinion on the actual Snowden case - I think pardoning someone is seen to active condone whistle-blowing within the miltary / intelligence community, which I can't see the Government wanting to do.

They should be condoning it. For that, a lot of things would have to change first though, like, for example, the community has to come to the realization that the (supposed) ends do not justify the means and that it's therefore the right thing to do to whistle-blow about them. They also need to realize that the internal mechanisms to whistle-blow are "not effective", to say the least.

You think every IT person in the government should have the ability to disclose any Top Secret programs based only on their own personal opinions about their legality?

Re: Pardon Snowden

#245
post #206

If you fear signing this, _and don't_, you really don't understand long risk mitigation and are just preparing yourself to be scared even more in the long run. Just like privacy doesn't exist without others, signing this will at least help by giving strength, and privacy, in numbers. Leaving this resistance alone, as if they were some heroes you respect but won't stand by, is really a cowardly way of being anti socie…

I don't know what long risk mitigation is, but I'm offended. /s

But seriously, nobody at the NSA is going to place* you on a watch list because you are part of a small vocal minority that raised support online for Snowden, a wanted traitor and saboteur of the USA.

*There is however a good chance that the money grubbing bastards at one of the third party contractors the NSA eats up reports and analytics from will profile you into something you are not (or lets face it, you are) and that will be ingested into our intelligence pipeline.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#246

Why would the Russian connected Trump hunt down a Russian spy?

This implicitly assumes that Trump has any actual Russian loyalties. While it's a popular accusation to throw about, it hasn't exactly been demonstrated. What has been demonstrated is that he admires the authoritarian strong-man style of their leader. That is worrying enough. Oh, and Snowden isn't a Russian spy. ;-)

Okay, maybe not a spy, but an agent.

https://20committee.com/2016/06/11/edward-snowden-is-a-russi...

"The proper espionage term for Edward Snowden is defector, meaning an employee of an intelligence service who takes up residence in another country whose spies are not friends. Since 1917, every single Western intelligence defector to Moscow has cooperated with the Kremlin, on grounds of quid pro quo. There is no known case of a defector not collaborating with the KGB or its successors. If you want sanctuary, you will tell the Russians everything you know. That is how the spy game works.

Any Russian intelligence officer who wants sanctuary in the United States will be required to collaborate with American spy services, including extended debriefings by multiple intelligence agencies. Are we really supposed to believe that Vladimir Putin, former KGB colonel, is more charitable?"

https://20committee.com/2016/07/02/the-kremlin-admits-snowde...

"Now, the Kremlin has settled the issue once and for all by stating that Edward Snowden is indeed their man. In a remarkable interview this week, Franz Klintsevich, a senior Russian security official, explained the case matter-of-factly: “Let’s be frank. Snowden did share intelligence. This is what security services do. If there’s a possibility to get information, they will get it.”"

Trumps daughter pals with Putin's girlfriend. Just saying.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#247
On a practical note, is it possible to pardon someone who hasn't yet been convicted of anything?

Presumably Obama could instruct the AG to drop the charges but that wouldn't prevent a future president from pursuing them.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#249
"By taking action you agree to receive occasional email updates from the Pardon Snowden campaign."

This alone is enough to deter participation. These campaigns need to separate social action from database building.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#250

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

Chilling effects have a long tail.
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