The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins • Hacker News Board

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#801

Post by jaywalk » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

Pyramus wrote: post #762

ddxxdd wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are we to believe that, out of 200 million square miles on this planet, this novel bat-related coronavirus just naturally emerged within 8 miles of a facility that specializes in novel bat related coronaviruses? During a season when bats hibernate to areas thousands of miles away? If you look at the circumstances behind this pandemic's origins, and do some basic back-of-the-envelope math, the lab-leak hypothesis i…

If the math were that easy, we wouldn't be discussing it. The first SARS outbreak happened in Guangzhou which has a BSL-3 lab, yet all evidence points to zoonotic transfer.

And in this case, there's basically zero evidence of zoonotic transfer aside from "China said so." So it's different.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#802

Post by freeflight » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

meowface wrote: post #752

freeflight wrote: post #739

The article claims "the Lancet statement rejected the lab-leak hypothesis", which is a bit misleading considering what the Lancet statement actually did was reject a human origin of the virus, based on genome sampling and other evidence. The two are not equal, the virus could be of natural origin but leaked from a lab, that scenario is still very much possible even in the context of the Lancet statement. Gilles Deman…

>the virus could be of natural origin but leaked from a lab, that scenario is still very much possible even in the context of the Lancet statement. That's absolutely true, but one of the main corollary claims is also that SARS-CoV-2 may have resulted in part from gain of function research. People making that claim have said that the virus seems to be particularly effective against humans despite no intermediate forms…

> People making that claim have said that the virus seems to be particularly effective against humans despite no intermediate forms discovered yet

But such forms were already discovered back in 2015 as a result of the research that's now labeled as "GoF research", even tho it didn't actually fall under the GoF moratorium back then [0].

Imho the whole thing has a very "shooting the messenger" vibe to it; The evidence we had for this being a very real possibility of happening is now turned into the alleged cause of it actually happening.

[0] https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.18787

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#803

Post by tim333 » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

frickenhamster wrote: post #306

mc32 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other astonishing things is the sudden about face by the media. I'm glad they allowed themselves the liberty of looking at alternative origins. But... they were SO adamant and complicit in any discussion about alternative theories being shut down under the guise of conspiracy, Trumpism, anti-China, etc. (These are the same people who have no qualms about attributing anything to Russia even if evidence is thin, so…

China supported this in a psyop. Remember when they tried repeatedly to push the origin of the virus to Italy? I'm ethnically Chinese, so I'm in contact with a lot of mainlanders. The brainwashing is very effective. Even if most mainlanders know that their state media is bogus, and that Xi is a dictator, they'll take it deeply personally when you say anything that threatens the whole China # 1 narrative. All they had…

I'm curious with Wikipedia which is normally neutral but was very anti lab leak in this case, whether China directly had people work as editors there.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#804

Post by FridayoLeary » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:48 PM UTC

toshk wrote: post #757

texasbigdata wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is naive, but what the issue here? These people are alive, the documents exist, the physical locations are accessible. This isn’t archeology. Couldn’t we ... just... check? Like maybe the UN or the group of 7 or something similar? You shut down the globe for a year, seems like it’d be worth running down all the Rabit holes.

You don't seem to understand China. Hollywood actor Cena just begged in Mandarin for forgiveness after mentioning Taiwan is a country (which it is). Local Amsterdam politicians are not allowed to go on the photo with Taiwanese politicians etc. The Communist Party is overly controlling and will not allow anything that will challenge their vision. While Europe and the US were busy with their internal quarrels the last…

At least they are going to be "trustworthy, lovable and respectable" from now on....

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#805

Post by grumple » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #313

bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

To me, the only really horrible thing is the way that anything other than the mainstream version of events was treated. I think there are different plausible theories, and I'm not surprised they have different adherents that are mostly all motivated by something other than a pure quest for the truth. That's life. If this was e.g. a civil or criminal trial, you'd see the same thing. The only difference is, in a trial,…

The problem with this is that the American public discourse is broken.

The Republicans (I can't tapdance around the direct call out with weasel words) and the right-wing media have lost all credibility because they often DO behave as racist, selfish, inconsistent conspiracy theorists. On those rare occasions when they are right or properly play the role of opposition rather than pushing an absurd agenda alongside their media manipulation, their prior behavior causes an automatic immune-like response. You can't trust anything they say or their intentions, and they are experts at the Gish Gallop (constantly coming up with new bs you have to respond to, when response takes far more effort) - why would this particular action be any different? Also, this seems more of a case of "a broken clock is right twice a day" than an indication that the right should be taken seriously as a general rule.

Non-credible actors that are known to be untrustworthy should never be the people who put forth any hypotheses if you want them to be taken seriously. The American far-right politicians/media and 4chan are not credible actors, and any idea associated with them will face an uphill battle.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#806

Post by adrr » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

badmadrad wrote: post #487

adrr wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nominated positions means he has direct control of them. He can fire and replace them at anytime.

If he did the media would say he was a madman firing people for not believing a conspiracy theory. He can't win with you folks.

Pretty sure he fire more of his cabinet than any other president. He also picked them. Do you hold him responsible for anything?

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#807

Post by tim333 » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

AstralStorm wrote: post #567

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was China's responsibility and the whole world must make sure to force China to ban wet markets. lol, have you ever been to a wet market? Are you sure you even know what they are? It’s a typical Asian stall market that they hose off every night. I’ve been to “dry” markets that they’re still cutting the faces off hogs and slaughtering chickens next to fruit vendors. That’s not particularly better. I’m not sure if…

Essentially banning all slaughtering on place and relegating it to specialty businesses which would be no better regulated than any slaughterhouse anywhere. Meaning, you'd change nothing besides forcing Chinese to use more transport and freezer cars.

They could ban wildlife. Chickens ok, pangolins no. Or enforce that if it's already banned.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#808

Post by capableweb » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

djkivi wrote: post #412

What a difference a year makes? https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/why-scientists-belie...

Your comment makes it seem like they somehow shifted their opinion from one side to the other. That's not what either articles are about.

The one you link is about "Wuhan-Lab Coronavirus Origin Theory Is Highly Unlikely", that the science is "dubious" but doesn't seem to make any strong claims either way (but I only skimmed the article).

The one in the submission is about how conversations and debates about the "Wuhan-Lab Coronavirus Origin Theory" was silenced because many thought it was so obvious.

While the articles are about the same subject, they touch on the subject in two very different ways and are in no way contradictory.

What you are doing here is trying to add more gasoline on some fire, but that's not super helpful.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#809

Post by tim333 » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

calsy wrote: post #678

Fomite wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative explanation is that the other COVID-19 narrative - that vaccines work, but those who are hesitant are essentially beyond convincing, and this is going to be both a long and boring years long slog to control globally and longer to find the origin - makes for exceedingly boring news. On the other hand, talking about "If X is true, then..." and spending the rest of the section talking about the lab leak h…

Where has ANYONE suggested lab leak is the 'truth' or they have a smoking gun. The news does not exclusively report on COVID either.

Maybe not here but check out https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-peop... and ^F for smoking gun. Good article by the way.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#810

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

jaywalk wrote: post #798

Rapzid wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like everyone has forgotten or never even knew the context of the original strong pushback. It wasn't against the possibility of a lab leak, it was against the rhetoric (lies) coming out of our own Whitehouse trying shift blame to China. Lies that were dangerously feeding anti-asian sentiment in the USA. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article...

Oh please. Your one article doesn't change the fact that even mentioning the lab leak theory got you labeled a right-wing conspiracy nut and in some cases banned from social media.

[deleted]