Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess it wouldn't be a discussion about sexism on HN without someone popping up to invalidate the woman's experiences.
If you look at it objectively, there simply isn't enough evidence to say that her examples were purposeful sexism. As others have said, people should be mindful of how they word things. There are plenty of articles that do provide substantial evidence showing sexism. I just fail to see that caliber of evidence in this article. Her tone honestly gives off the vibe that she thinks everyone is against her.
A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism
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Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism
#82Ahhh Stanford undergrads. Whenever I'm thinking this life is too brutal I can always count on them to remind me there are people out there whose entire lives have been shrouded in naiveté and privilege. I wonder how much the media is to blame for this young woman's mindset? Did she ever consider that her boss might not be asking her opinion because she was an intern? Or just jump to I'm not getting 100% attention on…
She is also kind of age-biased. Age doesn't matter, all kind of gender/legal-age/race relations are accepted by modern society.
Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism
#83I do sometimes wonder what's added by focusing on sexism in tech, in particular, and suggesting it's uniquely a problem with tech. I can believe it's worse here on average than some other comfortable professional jobs, but seriously, sexism is everywhere and if we want to reduce it, it makes more sense to me to focus on the problem itself in full generality rather than an environment it's found in. Unless you want to…
I will go so far as to say your suggestion to "focus on the problem in full generality" -- which is to say, to completely encompass an impossibly complicated issue -- is just a way of trying to pass responsibility and to avoid admitting that there is a problem. Of course, trying to resolve sexism everywhere is admirable. But to use the existence of sexism in other fields as a reason to avoid addressing it in our own is little better than rejecting its existence altogether.
edit for your edit: I think there are specific reasons that sexism is more prevalent in tech, which are not necessarily related to "software people are ignorant". In our culture there appears to be a general bias against women in pretty much all STEM fields, perhaps for historical reasons. I suspect (although this is just my opinion) that this is largely responsible for any greater bias that exists in tech as well. There is a mistaken perception that women are less capable in highly rational pursuits, which affects how women in tech are viewed by their colleagues. I think this is a big reason that women have a hard time in tech.
Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with this. Nobody should be judged based on how they look. If you compliment someone and don't compliment others, it could be interpreted the wrong way. If you compliment someone and it's misinterpreted, then it could also cause issues. Just don't judge people based on superficial things.
Knowing this I am going to start wearing sweatpants and slip-ons to work. Perhaps I'll stop bathing too. I would certainly hate to have to call my company out on tumblr for judging me on superficial things.
Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess it wouldn't be a discussion about sexism on HN without someone popping up to invalidate the woman's experiences.
I don't really read it as "invalidating" so much as pointing out the possibility of misattribution. A concrete example: my car broke down. It's a Ford, that's blue, and is a two door, and is rear wheel drive. Is the right conclusion that it broke because it's a Ford and all Fords are pieces of crap? Are there possible causes? Missed maintenance, a lemon, driving it too hard, etc. I realize that it's crazy to suggest…
If all your friends with Fords of various colors and models had problems -- you would rightfully have cause to focus in on Ford as the problem.
Do not pretend to be objective by discounting context, or acting like everyone else is an imbecile. I'm not saying that everything everyone says has to be taken as truth. But think about the context for a moment -- like why is she writing the article in the first place? It's no small thing to put your name out there on the internet WRT to this issue.
Think about how analytically you are viewing what she wrote about her experience vs. how uncritically you might view articles from PG (especially the earlier ones unassociated with YC).
Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've successfully completed steps 1 and 2: 1. Acknowledge there is a real problem. 2. Acknowledge you are part of the problem. Now, on to steps 3-n! 3. Don't be discouraged, accept that there are things you can do to help! This is good , you're about to become a more valuable member of society. 4. Accept that you need to put in some effort. Not much, don't worry. Most of it is shutting up. 5. Read what women write…
>Accept that you need to put in some effort. Not much, don't worry. Most of it is shutting up. Disgusting.
Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism
#87Yup, sounds like standard fare. I would have been impressed if she'd documented and reported this shitty behaviour. Then again Confrontation is difficult, no matter the context.
When the guy said: > Oh… well then I should have applied for that internship. A simple response like "what do you mean?" would be completely appropriate. Given the context of this example, I have a difficult time accepting the male was implying anything like what the author felt was directed at her. Rather I think it's a more reasonable assumption he came to the conclusion that if so many people from his school got F…
Going with OP's examples, I would have said the same thing as the guy said concerning her even if it was a male.
Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism
#88I do sometimes wonder what's added by focusing on sexism in tech, in particular, and suggesting it's uniquely a problem with tech. I can believe it's worse here on average than some other comfortable professional jobs, but seriously, sexism is everywhere and if we want to reduce it, it makes more sense to me to focus on the problem itself in full generality rather than an environment it's found in. Unless you want to…
You said yourself that you can believe that sexism is worse in tech than in other professions. That is already a problem worth discussing. Why is it worse? What can we do to correct that discrepancy? I will go so far as to say your suggestion to "focus on the problem in full generality " -- which is to say, to completely encompass an impossibly complicated issue -- is just a way of trying to pass responsibility and t…
I think "just don't be sexist please" makes more sense than "don't be sexist at work if you belong to this profession". Like I desperately clarified in my edit which you may not have seen, I'm not saying it shouldn't be pointed out in tech, I'm saying it's suspicious that the cultural narrative focuses so much on tech in particular.
Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism
#89Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism
#90"Sausagefest"? Really? A sub-editor let this past? Wow. Standards have not just fallen, they are now used to clean one's shoes these days.
Another new poster whose sole comment is on the use of the word Sausagefest. Is this the start of a grassroots campaign to change the underlying negativity of the phrase to a positive? A group of sausage makers or butchers per chance?
Another new poster
That is an ad-hominem attack - are we better than this on HN? What does his account age matter if the point is valid?