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A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

fortune.com

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Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#41

Post by woodman »

jnevill wrote: post #15
common_sense2 wrote: post #2

Did she really use the word 'sausagefest'? Ouch. That noise was credibility slamming the door on the way out.

Yes... the rest of her argument is moot because of the use of one word. That's really all it takes to ruin her credibility and ignore what she says. Either you are incredibly stupid or incredibly sexist... my guess is both.

> Either you are incredibly stupid or incredibly sexist...

Yeah, and I bet he is a homophobic racist animal rapist as well! Fall in line or I might start imagining more labels!

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#42

Post by theVirginian »

IdahoEv wrote: post #29
theVirginian wrote: post #3

Most of these incidents just sound like guys who were genuinely trying to be nice or funny, but because anything can be seen through the lens of sexism, this woman took the opportunity to consider herself oppressed.

... and predictably, the first comment proves her point. You see two or three examples of comments in the article, and feel comfortable dismissing her point entirely as a result. But of course a written article has only room for two or three examples. She wouldn't have written it if there weren't an absolute nonstop stream of this sort of crap over the course of years. A point she made abundantly clear, and an experi…

I did read that part. She claims her contributions were equivalent and I believe that they could have been, but where is the proof of that? If some independent party were to back up that claim with facts I would feel more comfortable supporting her point. I'm not denying that sexism exists, just making the point that I didn't like this article because I don't think it successfully makes its point.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#43

Post by asadotzler »

blkhp19 wrote: post #22

First of all, calling a group of guys a sausage fest is reverse sexism. If I called a classroom full of girls a barbie play-date, or a tea party, or a "fashion" class - regardless of the real reason for their gathering, people would be outraged - and rightfully so. None of those things are true and it's disrespectful to say something like that. Second, the guy who said "well I should have applied for that" might have…

The thing is, bklhp19, we don't need your analasys to tell us whether or not there are sexism and gender issues in tech and tech education. It's a fact and we know it so all you're offering here is a dismissal of this person's concern. Is that how you like to show up in the world, challenging or dismissing people around you when they take the time to communicate their experience of known problem space?

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#44

Post by Kalium »

IdahoEv wrote: post #29
theVirginian wrote: post #3

Most of these incidents just sound like guys who were genuinely trying to be nice or funny, but because anything can be seen through the lens of sexism, this woman took the opportunity to consider herself oppressed.

... and predictably, the first comment proves her point. You see two or three examples of comments in the article, and feel comfortable dismissing her point entirely as a result. But of course a written article has only room for two or three examples. She wouldn't have written it if there weren't an absolute nonstop stream of this sort of crap over the course of years. A point she made abundantly clear, and an experi…

Be careful what arguments you make. A person writing an article based on their experiences that they believe accurate and representative does not automatically make it so on both counts.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#45

Post by jchung »

bdamm wrote: post #12

Well she writes like a junior because she is. But the main points she makes - subtle sexism regarding capability in the face of equivalent effort - are certainly observable and do ring true. When I see articles like this (and the issue of sexism in computing does pop up quite often) I usually agree. It is there. But what can be done? I myself have been a disgusting example of a male engineer at times. And as much as…

Some things I do*

I try to be aware of my own biases when I'm in the office. Sometimes I schedule a little time to think specifically about them and try to identify potential moments I made assumptions I shouldn't have. When I feel that a male colleague is exhibiting concerning behavior I discuss it with them. I ask my female colleagues what we need to do to support their success and I listen to what they have to say. I do 1-on-1s with all of my colleagues to ask them whether they feel their perspectives are adequately heard and acted upon. When I see something that isn't right, I say "that's not right." When I hear a joke or comment that sounds "off", I say "hey man, that's off key -- keep it professional". I discuss equality with my wife and I listen to her perspective. I encourage and support her career ambitions even when they force me to make trade offs against my own.

Now that I think about it, I ascribe many of these behaviors (perhaps not all) to my ideals of professionalism and effective management practices.

* n of one. I'm not an expert. I'm male.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#47

Post by modfodder »

isthesubeditor wrote: post #18

"Sausagefest"? Really? A sub-editor let this past? Wow. Standards have not just fallen, they are now used to clean one's shoes these days.

Another new poster whose sole comment is on the use of the word Sausagefest. Is this the start of a grassroots campaign to change the underlying negativity of the phrase to a positive? A group of sausage makers or butchers per chance?

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#48

Post by Jimmy »

bdamm wrote: post #12

Well she writes like a junior because she is. But the main points she makes - subtle sexism regarding capability in the face of equivalent effort - are certainly observable and do ring true. When I see articles like this (and the issue of sexism in computing does pop up quite often) I usually agree. It is there. But what can be done? I myself have been a disgusting example of a male engineer at times. And as much as…

Stop feeling ashamed of yourself, for one. It's almost certainly because you're paying too much attention to external standards of behavior that have been imposed upon you.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#49

Post by blkhp19 »

ahelwer wrote: post #28
blkhp19 wrote: post #22

First of all, calling a group of guys a sausage fest is reverse sexism. If I called a classroom full of girls a barbie play-date, or a tea party, or a "fashion" class - regardless of the real reason for their gathering, people would be outraged - and rightfully so. None of those things are true and it's disrespectful to say something like that. Second, the guy who said "well I should have applied for that" might have…

I guess it wouldn't be a discussion about sexism on HN without someone popping up to invalidate the woman's experiences.

If you look at it objectively, there simply isn't enough evidence to say that her examples were purposeful sexism. As others have said, people should be mindful of how they word things.

There are plenty of articles that do provide substantial evidence showing sexism. I just fail to see that caliber of evidence in this article. Her tone honestly gives off the vibe that she thinks everyone is against her.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#50

Post by knowtheory »

theVirginian wrote: post #32
knowtheory wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully you can understand that intent isn't everything? Being considerate of others isn't just saying "pshht i didn't mean anything by it!" it's actually thinking about how other people might react in the circumstances they've been put in. You can call sexism a lens, but it might also help to understand the experiences others have lived (from their POV, not yours) to see why it's a lens that others are brought to…

Perhaps, but there certainly are some incidents which are ambiguous. I fear that by taking that mindset we will create an environment where people have more incentive to not speak to or interact with women because they might get in trouble for an action that was either careless or consciously intended not to be sexist but gets twisted around and made to look that way. I certainly think that saying something like "you…

Okay, it's great that you've got concerns about how guys feel, but shouldn't we equally consider how women in the field feel too?

I had female friends with whom i took CS classes who all had stories about guys who would do super weird things like start talking badly about them to others or refusing to cooperate with them on class projects after it being made clear that there was no romantic interest.

Nit picking individual comments or trying to negate how people feel about the circumstances they find themselves in isn't really addressing their concerns is it?

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