Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is the gun?
Congress.
Fair perspective.
I would say the true blame lies with the people who support all of these evil laws, usually out of a belief that they will profit from them.
Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
81–90 of 179 posts
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#82I'm going through this IRS bullshit -personally-. I was under the impression filing taxes was simple, hell why would they make it complicated. But nope, if you live abroad it's twice as complicated for an ex-pat. Worse still, if you're self-employed (like I am) and a freelancer it's ever more paperwork and edge cases to be careful of. And the cherry on top! Software engineers have a whole different set of tax rules.…
I think you meant "Fuck you, US Congress". The IRS is the enforcer, not the source.
True but the IRS is also off the straight and narrow as they have gone after political opponents of the president, disappeared evidence in the ensuing investigation, etc. etc.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#83Disclosure: I am a United States citizen (by facts of birth) and my wife is a United States citizen (by naturalization). Both of us have lived and worked both in the United States and as long-term expatriates in another country (Taiwan, where my wife is from). During both of my stays in Taiwan, I went through the trouble of filling out United States tax forms each year related to income that was wholly derived from m…
Nobody is saying or implying that American expatriates are, as a general rule, renouncing their citizenship. The issue is that a nontrivial number of American expatriates are being incentivized to renounce their citizenship, to the point where some of those feel they have no choice but to renounce. It's an unintended consequence of a law that affects a minority, and this is precisely what news media should be covering. To dismiss the article because "most citizens are happy," and to set up a straw man argument about immigration into the United States (a phenomenon completely unrelated to the reaction of non-US banks to US policy), would likely be seen as offensive to that minority which was forced to renounce citizenship.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#84I was personally bit by this (FBAR non-compliance). I worked abroad and was unknowingly violating it; found out about it from reading the news and hired a pro to extricate myself from the situation. The bank account held five figures. The cost to come into compliance was low five figures. The potential penalties were easily high six figures. It was much larger than the either (a) my total earnings from 4 years abroad…
Did you not pay US taxes for five years?
Even if you renounce US citizenship, I think you still owe US taxes for 10 years afterwards.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#85Typical for the IRS to go after the small fry while letting the behemoths get a free ride! Meanwhile, Facebook and Apple are supposedly based in Ireland. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-money-apple-avoids-p...
Precisely. Cases like this demonstrate exactly why democracy is meaningless when paired with an unrestrained capitalist system. Money completely triumphs votes in every policy issue. Income taxes are significantly higher than capital gains tax, and tax evasion becomes exponentially easier as a function of capital. Such is life. It appears the mean human society has always tended towards oligarchy. If you can't beatem…
Where can I find this "unrestrained capitalist system" you speak of? I'd love to live there.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, although the U.S. will expect you to file and pay taxes (as the article above explains) :)
Right right, no problems there. I'm comfortable, not wealthy, and a remote worker :)
You'll still have a $5k tax return to pay $0 in tax, have significantly higher penalty risk and have a hard time doing banking outside of the USA.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#87Disclosure: I am a United States citizen (by facts of birth) and my wife is a United States citizen (by naturalization). Both of us have lived and worked both in the United States and as long-term expatriates in another country (Taiwan, where my wife is from). During both of my stays in Taiwan, I went through the trouble of filling out United States tax forms each year related to income that was wholly derived from m…
Nobody is saying or implying that American expatriates are, as a general rule, renouncing their citizenship. The issue is that a nontrivial number of American expatriates are being incentivized to renounce their citizenship, to the point where some of those feel they have no choice but to renounce. It's an unintended consequence of a law that affects a minority, and this is precisely what news media should be coverin…
Nobody is saying or implying that American expatriates are, as a general rule, renouncing their citizenship. The issue is that a nontrivial number of American expatriates are being incentivized to renounce their citizenship, to the point where some of those feel they have no choice but to renounce.
Numbers matter in public policy discussions. I understand your opinion that the numbers of Americans who have renounced citizenship for tax reasons is "nontrivial," but I hope I make clear, as an American who has lived overseas among many other expatriate Americans, and who still keeps up regular contact with many expatriate Americans who derive all their income from overseas work, that I think the reported numbers are indeed trivial. As an American voter and taxpayer who cares deeply about the future of the United States and who knows first-hand about the trade-offs involved in living and working overseas, I'm not seeing a crisis here. I'm not seeing the numbers here I would need to see to advocate a change in current policy, even if other people kvetch about the current policy.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#88This type of article appears every few years. Frankly, I don't think the numbers are very impressive, and they seem to be declining. "In 2013, 2,999 Americans renounced their citizenship; in 2014 so far, it’s a little more than 1,500 people." The population of the US in 2012 was about 314 million. So 0.000009% renounced their citizenship...
Except they raised the fees for doing so something like %1,000 in the intervening period.
Remember, you don't get to just renounce. You have to petition the government for permission to have a hearing to renounce, and then you have to show up at this hearing -- in an embassy on foreign soil-- and give them reasons to let you renounce.
IF you say the wrong thing, they will not let you renounce.
The old adage "love it or leave it" forgets that we are, as far as the federal government is concerned, cattle, who can only wander off if we aren't too valuable. If you are worth several million, you will not be able to renounce without paying hefty taxes, and even then you probably need to rent some politicians with pull to influence the situation.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#89Portugal just ratified the Convention on Mutual Administrative Assistance in Tax Matters. Basically, the convention is an agreement pursuant to which Portugal agrees to use its own courts and police to collect unpaid U.S. taxes from U.S. citizens living in Portugal.
This is just absurd.. even that's a simbolic figure, they will be using Portugal tax income to support the collect of US taxes? I hope Brazil dont agree with that.. Now imagine the contrary.. would the US government help another country to collect tax from its citizens if they ask to?
I'm imagining BOPE knocking down one's door at 2AM because of unpaid US taxes.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I imagine it's more of a "check this box to verify you are not a US citizen" system. The bank could then charge your account fees if you lied and they had to deal with the IRS. I actually think the US tax return laws are reasonable -- there have to be some obligations for citizens to go along with the rights they have.
What rights do US expats have to go along with the obligations? The article doesn't seem to mention any.
Two reasons, first off the US government can request banks abroad put a hold on US citizen's money. Secondly if you ever enter the US they can hit you with fines and interest.