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Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

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Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#81

Post by ahoyhere »

kingkongrevenge wrote: post #70
ahoyhere wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but the two have nothing to do with each other. And, honestly, I'm aghast to find such poor reasoning on HN. Employment shapes society. Employment pays taxes, puts rooves over people's heads, causes stress and worry (what if I lose my job!?), informs societal choices regarding basic social services (tied to company healthcare). Finally, employment is a public act because it is a market -- if Joe works for…

Joe doing it up the butt created the AIDS epidemic. Seems publicly relevant to me. Not that I personally care much about Joe doing it up the butt, but once you think government has a role in sculpting society there is no distinction between personal social issues and personal business issues. Women choosing to have children out of wedlock has a huge effect on everyone. Much more than some guy offering unpaid internsh…

And people eating pork created the swine flu epidemic. Please.

Because a disease preys on a population does not mean that population created the disease, whether or not it becomes an epidemic.

I'm pretty sure that AIDS didn't spring fully formed out of the abyss, thanks to anal sex.

And then, if you want to get picky, the deliberate ignoring of the health issues by public authorities escalated the epidemic.

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#82

Post by uopnuiyb »

cwan wrote: post #64
gabrielroth wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under the 13th Amendment, you don't have the right to sell yourself into slavery in the United States. That is, you can't sign a contract under which I pay your family $n and in return you work for me under conditions of slavery. Prohibitions on unpaid labor are an extension of this restriction on your freedom to enter into contract of your own free will.

How is an unpaid internship anywhere close to being slavery? The unpaid intern can walk away at any time. Further, it's the choice of the unpaid intern - not their family as to whether or not to accept the choice.

So in a recession if GM/Boeing/Walmart demand that all new hires work for no pay for their first year 'as intern trainees' that would be OK?

If they fire these people on day 364 and get new trainees next year - that would be ok?

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#83

Post by DanielBMarkham »

ahoyhere wrote: post #60
apotheon wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Working for no pay on your own company is still totally legal and, whaddaya know, also known for giving a person experience. . . . but useless for getting your foot in the job field's door, because you have to already be there to "take advantage" of that "opportunity". Your "solution" completely ignores the catch 22 of needing a job to get experience and needing experience to get a job.

After years of freelancing, without prior "work experience" and without even a high school diploma, my first job paid me $64,000. Think about it - I ran my own business, I was responsible for everything from client acquisition, billing, account management, not to mention actual production and marketing. And I didn't starve or get evicted, so it clearly worked. That's great experience. An unpaid internship doesn't giv…

This might be the time to mention the true story of Christopher Gardner, as shown in "The Pursuit of Happyness" who worked for six months without pay to find his dream.

One story does not an argument make, but it's just an observation.

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#84

Post by uopnuiyb »

psranga wrote: post #11
yummyfajitas wrote: post #2

A strange fact popped into my mind, after reading this story and remembering some comments on the "Turing deserves an apology" story. Many people will say that two consenting adults have the right to do whatever they want in the privacy of their own bedroom. As soon as the act those adults want to do becomes nonsexual (e.g. an unpaid internship, unlicensed medicine), that principle goes out the window. Very confusing…

Hmm, one is an equal partnership, the other isn't. The unpaid internship law serves to give some protections to the little guy. Btw, I really don't understand why a billionaire (?) can't afford to pay hourly minimum wages to a bunch of kids.

Simple solution - call the job a training course and charge the interns $10k to do it!

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#85

Post by cwan »

tnovelli wrote: post #72
rapind wrote: post #7

It may not be a popular opinion but I agree with the US gov on this one. Everyone wants something for free. However, I think the big problem is how the compensation is valued. If the experience gained by the intern is more valuable than minimum wage, then yes, the law seems broken. However for every job that would actually provide meaningful experience and benefit the intern there are probably many other internships…

Second that. We had unpaid interns at my last job, and their work consisted of telemarketing, harvesting email addresses, web form spamming, data entry. It wouldn't be cost effective if their earned even $5/hr. What did they get out of it... cynicism? What happened to paying your way through college with paying jobs? Kids need to put their bottom line first, just like employers do.

"Kids need to put their bottom line first, just like employers do." - Absolutely - and you don't think they do? Are they better off to have been denied the choice? Why didn't those unpaid interns quit? Could it possibly be that they made the conscious choice that their time spent doing these tasks was better than not at all (or working in fast food or whatever other job for that matter)?

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#87

Post by cwan »

timr wrote: post #66
cwan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't explained why you agree with the US government on this one (though it's not just the US government). Value is subjective - so in the end, why would we rely on the government to establish value in the first place? Are you saying that instead of letting people make their own choices at an individual level as to whether or not the experience is of value, it's better for government to just ban the choice alto…

"Value is subjective - so in the end, why would we rely on the government to establish value in the first place?" We don't. The government takes the logical position that all such internships are illegal, so regulators don't need to make that subjective judgment. In this light, the answer to your second question is "yes" -- the government is erring on the side of worker safety. It's a judgment call, and you can disag…

"worker safety" - Huh? Where is the safety of the worker here being jeopardized?

It's not perfectly reasonable to the person being denied the choice. Clearly for the employer, the task(s) aren't of sufficient value to pay for the work otherwise, if they couldn't get unpaid workers, they would just pay for it.

Instead, banning the practice makes society tangibly worse off as the work on the margins isn't being performed and the next paid job the unpaid intern will get will likely be lower paid on average because they have less experience.

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#88

Post by apotheon »

pradocchia wrote: post #78
apotheon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, he's complaining that he can't employ people for a project that probably won't happen at all unless he can employ interns. You're saying "screw him" because he wants to create something that is of greater advantage to people entering the workforce than not having it in existence at all.

> he can't employ people for a project that probably won't happen at all unless he can employ interns I find that very doubtful. Why is he even considering the project if the cost of paid interns would negate the upside?

I could speculate about that all day. Maybe it has the potential to become beneficial. Maybe it has secondary effects that would be beneficial to his sports franchise, but he can't justify the expense to shareholders. Maybe he would like to provide something for the fans because he's a fan himself. What's it to you why he wants to do it?

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#89

Post by [deleted] »

alex_c wrote: post #29

Unpaid internships are one of the biggest scams ever. You want me to work for you for free so I get "invaluable experience"? How much is my work worth to you, if you're not paying me? For that matter, how much is the experience I get, if I'm doing worthless work? You want ME to be grateful for the privilege of getting the experience of making YOU money for nothing in return? Screw YOU. Mark Cuban makes it sound like…

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