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Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

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Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#81

Post by antihero »

ladyrassilon wrote: post #56
antihero wrote: post #38

Wait so now it is 100% un-okay to make any kind of sexual joke ever if women are remotely in the proximity? I make sexual jokes with female friends all the time, and they don't care if some of them are duds, because they are reasonable people. Surely the idea of feminism is to be treated like equal human beings, and human beings should have some sense of humour. I mean, of course tits in a slideshow is horrible becau…

It almost feels like we are being denied access to sex-themed humour... Newsflash... we might not find forking or dongle jokes funny... does not mean that we do not enjoy jokes... it means we enjoy things that are actually funny....

Thing, sure they were crummy jokes. A reasonable response would be to not laugh.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#83

Post by canweriotnow »

angersock wrote: post #40

So, we've got the "Think of the children!" argument: I realized I had to do something or she would never have the chance to learn and love programming because the ass clowns behind me would make it impossible for her to do so. I'll entertain that argument, though I think it is a wee-bit overbearing on her part to assume what will and what won't scare off this youngster; I don't believe, for example, that simple clums…

Agreed.

When was the last time attempting to publicly humiliate someone convinced them to turn from their unenlightened ways?

Any desire to make the developer community more diverse and open is admirable. But responding to inappropriate jokes in this manner isn't just overreaching.

It's repaying asshattery with asshattery.

I'm not defending the behavior of the guys in question here. And I'd like to go all white knight and support OP 100%, but I can't seem to shake this damned sense of perspective.

What would she have done if she had witnessed deliberate sexual harassment? Gone the extra mile and used Instagram? Or gone over the organizers heads and demand Guido ban those three guys from even using Python anymore?

People make bad, unfunny jokes. Call them out if they're offensive. But this is just ridiculous.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#84

Post by curtisspope »

MetaCosm wrote: post #63
angersock wrote: post #40

So, we've got the "Think of the children!" argument: I realized I had to do something or she would never have the chance to learn and love programming because the ass clowns behind me would make it impossible for her to do so. I'll entertain that argument, though I think it is a wee-bit overbearing on her part to assume what will and what won't scare off this youngster; I don't believe, for example, that simple clums…

Or just look at the domain name, the calculation, the self-aggrandizement and realize a perfectly played marketing ploy to drive traffic to her site and get her some future speaking engagements. I give her props for deft manipulation of the situation for maximum effect, it was rather brilliant... and from her perspective the worst thing is an unfunny guy got fired, not a bad days work.

lol

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#85

Post by antihero »

KuraFire wrote: post #77
antihero wrote: post #38

Wait so now it is 100% un-okay to make any kind of sexual joke ever if women are remotely in the proximity? I make sexual jokes with female friends all the time, and they don't care if some of them are duds, because they are reasonable people. Surely the idea of feminism is to be treated like equal human beings, and human beings should have some sense of humour. I mean, of course tits in a slideshow is horrible becau…

The problems with your comment are numerous. I'll list them off in order of sentence number: 1: Strawman; assumption of binary plus suggesting Adria's post is asking for an extreme solution ("100%"), rather than being aware of context and being sensitive to these issues. 2: False assumption that your female friends all don't care about your potentially sexist remarks. Chance is greater that if they do, they wouldn't…

> assumption of binary plus suggesting Adria's post is asking for an extreme solution ("100%")

Well I'm not really sure what is less offensive than a dongle innuendo.

> False assumption that your female friends all don't care about your potentially sexist remarks.

Nope, they (including my mother, who was a feminist activist back in the 80s) have had my back in many arguments about similar sorts of things.

> Adria is completely reasonable and accurate with what she's saying.

Nope, because there is nothing reasonable about publicly shaming someone for a joke that has nothing sexist about it because you heard some shit in a talk and make a bizarre connection between that and it.

> Being treated like equal human beings means treating people with respect, and making degrading, sexualized jokes at a professional event is not treating people with respect.

We have different ideas of respect then. My idea of respect is to not treat people like children that flip out because of some silly innuendo that doesn't actually do anything. It's not like the pornographic slides (which I spoke out against) or any of the other numerous offences of the tech. industry. This is two dudes relaxing and making some non-sexist innuendo.

> shitty behavior

Point blank refuse to accept that what they did was "shitty behaviour". Loosen the fuck up, focus on the real battles.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#86

Post by georgebarnett »

jjacobson wrote: post #68
georgebarnett wrote: post #7

Given that it would be trivial to turn around and ask them not to offend, I fail to see the benefit in publicly going after these guys after the fact. Mob justice doesn't allow the other party the ability to alter their behaviour (we don't know if asking would have worked) nor does it allow the other party to tell their side of the story. In addition, it has a habit of causing both sides to dig their heels in and oft…

Adria, and most women, are tired of asking people one by one not to offend. This is her asking everyone to think about what they say in public.

I think you would find that most minority groups (whether they be religious groups, women in tech or geeks in high school) would be tired of asking those they consider to be offending them to stop.

Under no circumstances is that a justification for taking matters into your own hands. To suggest that it is creates a negative feedback loop where both sides feel justified to take ever increasing actions against the "aggressor" (from their perspective).

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#89

Post by drucken »

Imagine, instead of 1,000 people in a room, there are only 10. Two of them are women.

  - the conference specifically welcomed diversity, has many women's groups 
    represented and 20% women attendance is considered notable

  - the keynote speaker is the creator of Python

  - the current speaker is discussing a successful initiative about young girls
    coding

  - you are one of the two women and are sitting in front of two guys who are
    bantering sexual jokes as the current speaker discusses part of your work
    and thanks others

  - one of the guys speaking behind you is a sponsor of the conference.
What would you do?

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#90

Post by varjag »

girvo wrote: post #42
varjag wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it seems the jokes were fired solely because she was in the earshot. EDIT: downvoting, seriously? I just go by her account in the linked article, which I hope everyone commenting took their time to read as well. Her argument is clear and isn't anywhere as unfounded as skimming through the comments here would make you think. She of course could be making things up, which neither me, nor anything else who were…

For the record, I didn't downvote you. Her article is worded in such a way as that it can be construed as being directed at her, but it is never outright said, nor does the guy who got fired suggest that that was the case (of course, he does have a horse in the race; however, he was very honest and apologetic in his response). It smells disingenuous to me.

The firing was definitely an overreaction. Then I feel her choice of tweeting vs. just telling him to cut it is really a form of conflict avoidance rather than some noble goal for sake of the children as she spins it.

Still I think the guy most likely acted like that just because the female was around. I mean, would a developer seriously bring lewd jokes each time forking is mentioned? Perhaps it was his take on acting manly or just general lack of social skills. It's unfortunate how it all ended.

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