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Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

butyoureagirl.com

31–40 of 124 posts

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#31
This whole thing was a massive failure on all sides.

It was a social failure by the guys who kept on making annoying and unfunny jokes (I think it actually starts with this obnoxious "thank me! thank me!" stuff).

It was a total benevolence failure on part of the author who seems exceedingly gleeful about her well-calculated coup.

It's a failure of society in general to think that "sexualized" environments somehow attack the expected chastity of women. Or that chastity is a virtue in the first place.

It's a failure of taste to think those kinds of comments are actually funny - or even sexual for that matter, and that equally-as-annoying non-sexual comments should go unpunished.

It's a failure of the geek community in general to create an environment where a constant battle is being waged between men and women, that certainly includes obnoxious and harassing behavior of groups of men, but it just as well applies to women who are constantly on the prowl to detect sex stuff.

This whole thing: totally unnecessary from all sides. Instead, we could just code in peace. But as I see it nobody is making an effort to actually question the factors that led to this totally predictable and depressingly recurring disaster. Everybody is just pouncing on the scandal. This energy would be better spent by employing a healthy dose of introspection.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#32

I don't think there's anything wrong with jokes like this... except that they exacerbate an already huge problem. There were 4 women who graduated with a degree in CS in my class of more than 100 last year. The intro class to CS had almost 50% female enrollment. I watched as women dropped out, one by one, switching to math or other engineering majors, some to science or humanities. They were left out of study groups,…

If you'll pardon me for quoting a recent Big Bang Theory episode...

"All your ideas address [women] at a university level. By then it is too late. You need to design an outreach program that targets them at the middle school level and sets them on an academic track towards the hard sciences."

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#33
post #14

The "jokes" (which are lame) weren't directed at her from what I can gather. The OP publicly lynched them, and one guy was fired for it. What a crap situation all over :( I dont understand the offensiveness of what they said, directed at themselves, just being idiots. Christ, that could happen to me. Is fear of reprisal better than actual understanding?

While it would not happen to me in all likelihood, I find the general lack of humour displayed in this case by the OP appalling.

However I am aware of the fact that many of my gender are incredibly offensive to women and that after a long week with many conferences and in all likelihood having to suffer many comments and jokes that really warrant a calling out the sensitivities are heightened.

Unfortunately calling a tasteless joke about a big dongle sexist draws attention away from the real offenders and validates the believes of die hard sexists that this is drama about nothing.

I'd rather have people concentrate on stopping things like http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Flashbelt_slide_show instead of twitter shaming someone who made a joke among his friends, that was not thought for the ears of the OP.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because you postulate unfounded facts. Nothing in the story indicates that the jokes where fired because she was in the earshot.

From TFA: >He said he would be interested in forking the repo and continuing development. That would have been fine until the guy next to him… began making sexual forking jokes The guy inserted his forking double innuendos in a conversation two other persons were having. Do you seriously think he'd do that if one of those weren't a female? (Also, forking jokes? Is that 1995 or what)

However that was not the guy she twit shamed as far as I can gather from her not very organized writeup.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#36

I don't think there's anything wrong with jokes like this... except that they exacerbate an already huge problem. There were 4 women who graduated with a degree in CS in my class of more than 100 last year. The intro class to CS had almost 50% female enrollment. I watched as women dropped out, one by one, switching to math or other engineering majors, some to science or humanities. They were left out of study groups,…

who's to say that these "oppressed" deserve to feel so victimized? perhaps you don't see the counter-culture that badass CS chicks inspire...

the terms were NOT gender-biased, and if she had wanted to counter the joke by saying something like "I'll stick a fork in YOU -- haha, just kidding, but shut up 'cuz your joke legitimately offended me," or "you better watch out before I slap you with my crime-fighting dongle," and then smiling, or something... it's guaranteed that at least they would appreciate a break in the ice, and you could move on knowing that you didn't cause anyone to lose his/her/its job. friendship can be emoted in many forms, and turning to the internet crying heresy and sexism when you see it (friendship) happening is in legitimately poor taste here.

men who don't stand up for themselves think that they get bullied often, too. but there is nothing better than knowing chicks in CS who stand up for themselves and the good that they bring to the world (she++ shoutout). to cry foul this is insulting to me and my friends who enjoy humor and standing up for ourselves and not running away.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#37
My 2c:

- The conference organizers set a very inclusive mandate that was, perhaps unwittingly, violated.

- The blog post author was justified in using social media to alert the organizers that their mandate was being violated, but this probably could have been done privately with a similar effect.

- It is extremely unfortunate that the violator's employers fired him. That is a big overreaction on the employer's part.

- The individual outcome here of the guy getting fired sucks, really badly, but that was not the blog post author's decision to make in the first place.

- If this helps people think twice before speaking in a public place, that's a good thing. The community will become more inclusive as a result.

I think that this is not about political correctness but about fostering an environment that allows everyone to feel comfortable. Perhaps the general short term trend will be to overcorrect by being extremely polite and reserved, but when the community embraces women and the community is evenly split between males/females/other this will eventually fade into history as we collectively reach a tone for public conversation that embraces as many people as possible while still maintaining emotion.

This isn't just a tech problem. The whole world is figuring out how to communicate with each other anew. There are gay people, ethnic minorities, people who identify with an uncommon gender, recovered drug addicts, people who have had family members die, vegetarians, etc. who will all take offense to certain remarks that were par for the course some time in the recent past. This is inevitable as the world embraces diversity and myriad forms of identity.

I suspect things will work themselves out in time, and the world will become more tolerant, while allowing people to poke fun at each other in a way that doesn't take things too far for the majority of each minority.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#38
Wait so now it is 100% un-okay to make any kind of sexual joke ever if women are remotely in the proximity? I make sexual jokes with female friends all the time, and they don't care if some of them are duds, because they are reasonable people.

Surely the idea of feminism is to be treated like equal human beings, and human beings should have some sense of humour.

I mean, of course tits in a slideshow is horrible because it makes women feel marginalised, however forking and dongle jokes? Seriously? Fuck that. Unless they were clearly being used to make her feel uncomfortable, what business does she have overhearing a private conversation and being offended by it?

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#39
Given that the author was contributing to a more accessible culture at one of the largest tech gatherings in the world, it's disappointing to see so much disbelief and anger here.

Her response and the resulting actions may seem harsh as an isolated incident, but they reflect her frustration with the countless times that she would have ignored such statements.

In the context of an event that prioritises diversity and equality - such that it has achieved 20% female attendance - the behaviour of the gentlemen involved represents exactly what the organisers are fighting against.

The best response to this story would be for readers to reflect and to realise how unintentionally alienating the macho nature of code communities can be.

The larger picture here is not Man vs. Woman. The issue is that we are members of a subculture which projects an image of immature and offensive behaviour. Behaviour which offends other races, ethnicities, ages, abilities, religions, sexual orientations AND genders.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#40
So, we've got the "Think of the children!" argument:

  I realized I had to do something or she would never have
  the chance to learn and love programming because the ass
  clowns behind me would make it impossible for her to do 
  so.
I'll entertain that argument, though I think it is a wee-bit overbearing on her part to assume what will and what won't scare off this youngster; I don't believe, for example, that simple clumsy bawd would actually be enough to ruin software development for all people forever--and honestly, how many of us would want to work with someone who can't take the occasional obscene joke?

This is where I have a problem with the author's actions:

  I decided to do things differently this time and didn’t
  say anything to them directly. 
...especially when, in the same article, we have:

  I know I don’t have to be a hero in every situation.
Honestly? This is what passes for heroism these days? Are you kidding me?

Had the author talked to them, expressed discontent, explained why she felt their behavior was inappropriate, and all that, I'm sure everyone would've come out ahead. Instead, these poor folks are getting smeared for cracking wise to each other during a conference.

No amount of hand-wringing will change the fact that the author, when given the opportunity to directly improve the situation and help set a good example, chose to make a mess of things for what is probably at best just ill-timed immaturity.

If you want to help the cause of women in CS, you have to make sure that you are setting an example where your actions cannot be interpreted as fearful, backstabbing, or passive-aggressive. You want to be a positive role-model, right?

EDIT: Here, a call to action. Folks, don't put up with people who are being jerks--but at least try to explain to them why they are being jerks, and try to set a good example. A lot of people don't try to screw up things--they just need a nudge to keep on the right path from time to time.

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