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I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#81

Post by quitit »

Something which this article highlights is the lack of reliable rail in the USA.

Where I am there is a decent rail network, and the rail provider has a fleet of EVs for rent, where the cost of the electricity is included. This provides a "green" last mile solution even if the public transport itself in each area may be lacking (often it's not however).

So a trip looks like this:

Hop on the train which quickly takes the lion's-share of the travelling distance, then switch to an EV that fills the gap to the final destination/s. Then do this process in reverse to get home.

This approach solves the largest problems presented by the author.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#82

Post by gambiting »

KaiserPro wrote: post #72
jillesvangurp wrote: post #21

Electric Vehicle Man on Youtube did a review of a 2000 pound second hand Renault Zoe that he picked up a few weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEvwtxGeVpQ The second hand market for EVs is getting pretty interesting. There are lots of EV owners that are replacing their EVs every few years and because of all the growth over the last 10 years, there are now quite a few fairly nice EVs on the second hand market…

Yeah that was basically my assesment. I bought a second hand Zoe in the UK mainly because they are so common, which means parts should be still around for a while yet. the leaf was an option, and I could have bought and upgraded the battery on an old one, but I think on balance the zoe was a better purchase for the same combined price. (for me, your mileage may vary) In terms of practicality, for where I live (suburb…

We bought a VW e-Up here in the UK for the same reason - it shares all non-drivetrain parts with regular Ups so spare parts should be available forever and it's a very easy car to work on. Its easy 120-150 mile range is perfect for day to day use, I just charge it at home overnight. And I actually took it on a trip to the lake district few weeks back, no problem at all - 30 minute stop at a fast charger on the M6 both ways gave me way more juice than needed to get to my destinations. And it has an 8 year warranty on the battery, and VW lets me extend the main warranty for £200 a year, and a service is only due once ever 2 years and costs £90. What's not to like lol.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#83

Post by rsynnott »

bzzzt wrote: post #45
sgt101 wrote: post #3

EV's look like EV's because they don't have the same constraints on space that ICEV's do. There is no engine in the front/back, no water pump, no oil pump, no water cooled radiator, no starter motor... so on so on. There's also a great big battery under the floor pan and no gas tank. They are also heavier, so need different set ups in order to handle decently. But, that's why they look so different.

That wouldn't explain the unorthodox color schemes lots of smaller EVs like the i3 have. It really seems they are made uglier 'on purpose'. Also, a Tesla model S or 3 looks like a normal car so it's not other brands can't do that.

VW's first-gen EVs, the eGolf and later eUp, looked basically just like the Golf and Up. This lead people to believe that VW did not make electric cars (a lot of people thought the ID.3/4 were their first). The market _wants_ electric cars to be a bit weird-looking.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#84

Post by Hamuko »

formerly_proven wrote: post #78
Hamuko wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to your local Mitsubishi dealership in Europe and you will find the 2025 Outlander PHEV with a CHAdeMO plug. And I believe if you buy a pre-2019 Tesla Model S or Model X, you will have to deal with Tesla's own plug.

I'm guessing it skirts regulations by being a PHEV, since CCS2 is mandatory for DCFC otherwise. Skirting regulations is quite fitting for a PHEV, of course, as that is their raison d'etre.

The outgoing Nissan Leaf also has CHAdeMO and that's a full BEV.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#85

Post by rsynnott »

numpad0 wrote: post #58
liendolucas wrote: post #37

Looks like you bought a faulty computer which happens to have 4 wheels buddy. The neutral and parking brake issues: that just by itself should make Nissan stocks plummet. 2025 and we have these issues? It definitely looks an involution to me. Things we humans are still lame at: adapters. Power adapters, cable data adapters. Why do we have bazillions adapters? Can't we just design one adapter for the whole world that…

EU solved it years ago by mandating CCS2. Even Tesla in EU uses that plug and reportedly just works, except Tesla have no access to DCFC without carrying an adapter because they adamantly reject Combo2. I believe China does the same, only stricter, and some of Model S/X in China reportedly has fuel doors to fit the port. As if regulations work. They seem to have very strange situations over there.

Strictly speaking, the EU only mandates CCS2 on _chargers_; the second gen Leaf sold in Europe didn't have CCS2, though I think it was about the last car not to have it.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#86

Post by bluGill »

mschuster91 wrote: post #19
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #4

* Limiting the number of QCs (Quick Charges / DC Fast Charge), as this heats up the uncooled Leaf battery, degrading it slightly each time, especially on hotter days * Keeping the charge between 50-80% when manageable * Charging up to 100% at least once a month, and letting it 'top off' to rebalance the pack for at least a few hours afterwards * Not driving like a maniac, despite having more torque in this car than I…

Limiting QC events is easy enough. A daily commuter vehicle can easily trickle charge over night, and even the measly 40 kWh old used Leaf can get you 200km a charge - assuming an average commute of 20 km for Germany, that's a whole work week worth of battery life. The only time you as an average person actually "need" QC is for the yearly vacation road trip, but as the author writes, renting an ICE or chungus electr…

Renting a car for vacations / road trips is expensive. sure you can but expect to pay $100 per day. Also expect to arrive and be told they can't fill your reservation as they are out of cars.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#87

Post by gambiting »

potato3732842 wrote: post #79
blitzar wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> recharge after roughly 170 miles ... these cars won't be dead weight or dirt cheap The average car journey is 8 miles. Being an average with a finite lower limit of 0 it is skewed higher by the people who for various reasons drive long distances. You don't need a 1,000 mile range to get to the shops at the end of the street. It helps, but not that much.

You can screech about averages and means all you want but the fact of the matter is that if you're exceeding your vehicle's capabilities on a weekly or monthly basis the inconvenience of ownership goes up exponentially. I do 100mi/day but I all but need the ability to make that 200 on a weekly basis and am doing a 300 on a monthly basis. With charging at work and home those numbers become 50, 150 and 250 between char…

I mean, I don't disagree with you. But a lot of people have two cars if both adults work and have to drive to work - so it makes perfect sense for the second car to be electric. We have a little VW e-Up with "just" 120-150 miles of range and in day to day use we never get anywhere close to running out. In fact my wife uses it to commute every day and we charge it once a week from a regular plug at home. It saves considerable amount of money over a petrol Polo she had before, to a point where the car pays for itself(almost). But yeah, we also have another car(a PHEV Volvo) that we use for long trips.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#88

Post by gambiting »

formerly_proven wrote: post #80
guepe wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely avoided and not my experience. This is only because the leaf is not actively cooled. Most ev do not suffer from such difficult management of battery and have a computer dedicated to cool / heat and keep battery in healthy temps. They do degrade over time but very, very slowly. Absolutely not like phones. Mine has 25k miles and zero degradation yet.

Even then the Leaf stands out with seemingly unusually high battery degradation compared to the uncooled battery competitors from 2014.

A VW e-Up(and its siblings, Skoda Citigo EV and Seat Mii Electric) all have passively cooled batteries but owners don't report much if any battery degradation even on the first gen models which are over 10 years old now. I can only assume it's the battery chemistry or cell composition compared to the Leaf. Our own is 4 years old and I haven't noticed any range loss compared to when it was new.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#89

Post by bluGill »

kccqzy wrote: post #14

> they shouldn't do 16 on a 15A circuit but it seems like some do There are 20A 120V circuits too! Called NEMA 5-20, one of its prongs is rotated. You plug that into a receptacle where one of the slots is T-shaped instead of straight. And it's standard practice for EVs to draw 80% of the maximum current, so 16A it is. I see this plug in larger machines in the office, like a large photocopier or a large vacuum.

Legaly kitchen and garrages need 20 amp circuits but they allow nema 5-15 outlets there.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#90

Post by masklinn »

sillyfluke wrote: post #66
jillesvangurp wrote: post #21

Electric Vehicle Man on Youtube did a review of a 2000 pound second hand Renault Zoe that he picked up a few weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEvwtxGeVpQ The second hand market for EVs is getting pretty interesting. There are lots of EV owners that are replacing their EVs every few years and because of all the growth over the last 10 years, there are now quite a few fairly nice EVs on the second hand market…

Don't really follow the secondhand EV market, but it seems to me firsthand buyers are still taking on considerable risk due to the range situation. People who have bought them abroad are sometimes advised to keep the battery between 20%-80-90% full. Following this advice, one person I know told me if they drive like they did their old car they have to recharge after roughly 170 miles, which is super annoying for them…

> People who have bought them abroad are sometimes advised to keep the battery between 20%-80-90% full.

You want to keep batteries roughly in that range to maximise their lifetime health. That doesn't mean the battery will explode if you do otherwise once in a while e.g. you charge limit the car to 80% for your daily drive and before a big trip you charge to 100%.

Route planners will generally keep you in that band anyway because charging speeds fall off a cliff as charge exceeds 80~90% (depending on the manufacturer's usable % standard), and it's rarely worth wasting 30mn charging to full to save 5~10mn extra at the next stop (the same occurs to a lower extent at very low states of charge, plus you want some spare, so the lower 10% are generally treated as a reserve).

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