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I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#21

Post by jillesvangurp »

Electric Vehicle Man on Youtube did a review of a 2000 pound second hand Renault Zoe that he picked up a few weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEvwtxGeVpQ

The second hand market for EVs is getting pretty interesting. There are lots of EV owners that are replacing their EVs every few years and because of all the growth over the last 10 years, there are now quite a few fairly nice EVs on the second hand market. Many are typically still under drive train warranty. For example, the model 3 has only been on the market for about eight years and it came with eight years of warranty on the drive train. So, most of the second hand ones would still be under warranty. And most of the EV market only started growing after that. So this is true for many second hand EVs.

And car batteries don't seem to spontaneously stop working right after the warranty expires either. So the risk is fairly low. They'll eventually degrade. But if you can pick up a car for a few thousand and then drive it for another 5-10 years, who cares? The fuel savings alone pay for the car after just a few years. Add the savings on maintenance and you are basically in the plus.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#22

Post by squigz »

HPsquared wrote: post #16
sgt101 wrote: post #3

EV's look like EV's because they don't have the same constraints on space that ICEV's do. There is no engine in the front/back, no water pump, no oil pump, no water cooled radiator, no starter motor... so on so on. There's also a great big battery under the floor pan and no gas tank. They are also heavier, so need different set ups in order to handle decently. But, that's why they look so different.

They tend to handle better than ICE cars due to the low centre of mass (also the fact the big mass - the battery - is firmly bolted to the frame and not wobbling around on rubber mounts like an engine does). These are both big advantages in terms of dynamics. Couple that with the much faster powertrain response and many options to do torque vectoring to each wheel (individual motors on sports models) and it's an easy…

Now I want street versions of the Speirling.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#23

Post by carstenhag »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #4

* Limiting the number of QCs (Quick Charges / DC Fast Charge), as this heats up the uncooled Leaf battery, degrading it slightly each time, especially on hotter days * Keeping the charge between 50-80% when manageable * Charging up to 100% at least once a month, and letting it 'top off' to rebalance the pack for at least a few hours afterwards * Not driving like a maniac, despite having more torque in this car than I…

This is, as the title mentions, the cheapest EV. It's really old. It did not have tech that pretty much all EVs have nowadays.

Nowadays you don't have to do this. You can. Just like with your phone or laptop.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#24

Post by Bairfhionn »

My Problem was always the Range Anxiety.

Until I got an EV and realized it's not really an issue. There is always an App for that (and even on my car the software gets improved in that regard).

Infrastructure is getting better, even companies starting to see it as a benefit to have cheap/free chargers at their offices to get people back.

I see more and more electric trucks on the roads. It feels good.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#25

Post by masklinn »

> Lack of standards: For 'L3' DC Fast Charging, the Leaf has a CHAdeMO port. Teslas and many newer EVs have NACS. Then there's CCS1 and CCS2. And charging stations are run by multiple vendors with multiple apps and payment methods. It's not like gas stations, like with Shell, BP, Buckee's, etc. where you just drive up, stick the gas nozzle in your tank, and squeeze.

Afaik in Europe, CCS2 is the standard (and mandatory these days), when I rented an EV a few weeks back there was no location which didn’t have it. And all the spots I tried charging at except Tesla accepted card payment (though there were a pair of times it was a struggle getting a card to work).

Apps / memberships will get you cheaper prices but that’s about all I saw (and I didn’t bother with any of it).

TBH the only things that annoyed me were implementation issues of the car (a polestar 4) as well as how overly wide it is. And that the rental company (AVIS) does not provide an AC adapter, so I was not able to charge at any wallplug even though I had the opportunity to charge the car at least twice over in all (I will likely purchase one if that remains their policy and I rent more EVs).

All this is modulo it being summer and a pretty long range model so range anxiety was present but reasonably limited.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#26

Post by mort96 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #12
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #4

* Limiting the number of QCs (Quick Charges / DC Fast Charge), as this heats up the uncooled Leaf battery, degrading it slightly each time, especially on hotter days * Keeping the charge between 50-80% when manageable * Charging up to 100% at least once a month, and letting it 'top off' to rebalance the pack for at least a few hours afterwards * Not driving like a maniac, despite having more torque in this car than I…

If you think this is what puts you off EVs, then you haven't read the horror stories from EV Clinic. TL;DR is many EVs and hybrids (especially European ones) have tonnes of design faults with e-motors and power-electronics that not only make them ticking time bombs(not in the explosive sense) out of warranty, but also have malicious DRM making third party parts impossible to source, and repairs difficult and eye wate…

The DRM thing unfortunately has nothing to do with EVs and everything to do with the computerization of cars. All cars have gotten more and more computerized and harder to repair with more DRM. EVs arguably fundamentally require heavy computerization more than ICE cars, but you're not gonna avoid it in a brand new diesel car either.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#27

Post by kbos87 »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #4

* Limiting the number of QCs (Quick Charges / DC Fast Charge), as this heats up the uncooled Leaf battery, degrading it slightly each time, especially on hotter days * Keeping the charge between 50-80% when manageable * Charging up to 100% at least once a month, and letting it 'top off' to rebalance the pack for at least a few hours afterwards * Not driving like a maniac, despite having more torque in this car than I…

I don't think about any of this and never have. My 2022 Model Y has 60,000 miles on it and the battery has only lost a negligible amount of health/range since I bought it.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#28

Post by numpad0 »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #4

* Limiting the number of QCs (Quick Charges / DC Fast Charge), as this heats up the uncooled Leaf battery, degrading it slightly each time, especially on hotter days * Keeping the charge between 50-80% when manageable * Charging up to 100% at least once a month, and letting it 'top off' to rebalance the pack for at least a few hours afterwards * Not driving like a maniac, despite having more torque in this car than I…

Those were comporomises Nissan made in 2010s to build an EV that will be under $30k new in 2025. Not all of it are fundamental limitations of Li-ion BEV technology.

Tangential trivia: BYD Dolphin Baseline is 20k new before subsidies in some places.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#29

Post by jacquesm »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #12
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #4

* Limiting the number of QCs (Quick Charges / DC Fast Charge), as this heats up the uncooled Leaf battery, degrading it slightly each time, especially on hotter days * Keeping the charge between 50-80% when manageable * Charging up to 100% at least once a month, and letting it 'top off' to rebalance the pack for at least a few hours afterwards * Not driving like a maniac, despite having more torque in this car than I…

If you think this is what puts you off EVs, then you haven't read the horror stories from EV Clinic. TL;DR is many EVs and hybrids (especially European ones) have tonnes of design faults with e-motors and power-electronics that not only make them ticking time bombs(not in the explosive sense) out of warranty, but also have malicious DRM making third party parts impossible to source, and repairs difficult and eye wate…

> Maybe the EU should focus more on EV/auto repairability regulations instead of smartphones and USB-C widgets.

Maybe they should do both.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#30

Post by FirmwareBurner »

mort96 wrote: post #26
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think this is what puts you off EVs, then you haven't read the horror stories from EV Clinic. TL;DR is many EVs and hybrids (especially European ones) have tonnes of design faults with e-motors and power-electronics that not only make them ticking time bombs(not in the explosive sense) out of warranty, but also have malicious DRM making third party parts impossible to source, and repairs difficult and eye wate…

The DRM thing unfortunately has nothing to do with EVs and everything to do with the computerization of cars. All cars have gotten more and more computerized and harder to repair with more DRM. EVs arguably fundamentally require heavy computerization more than ICE cars, but you're not gonna avoid it in a brand new diesel car either.

That's why I said repair regulations are needed for all cars not just EVs.
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