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Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

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Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#81

Post by MrGilbert »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #52
layoric wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, early 2010s IMO seems to be the point where the industry really started to shift. There are some good cars from before this time, but keep them running past the 2030s will be a challenge.

What happened in the early 2010s? 1980s widespread adoption of electronic fuel injection - this is generally a good thing, cars become more complex but run better more of the time 1990s widespread adoption of more advanced emissions control systems - for reliability i'd say this is only a backwards step - none of these systems are required to propel the car down the road but many of them can stop a car from driving.…

> 2010s widespread adoption of telematics maybe? That was more mid-late 2010s though

I haven't done it yet, but maybe looking into the EU mandatory regulations would make sense. eCall, for instance (a feature that will call for help if you crashed by contacting an operator), was made mandatory in new cars in 2018. The initiative gained traction at around 2013.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#82

Post by Sayrus »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #40
EvanAnderson wrote: post #23

I am all for removing this needless communication the manufacturers are equipping cars with now, but between your cell phone associating with towers, the Flock cameras that every municipality has eagerly deployed, the repo bounty people driving parking lots with LPRs, and LEOs with on-car LPRs you're still being tracked. Still, no reason to make it easier.

It can all be fought. https://deflock.me/ I keep my phone in Airplane Mode. Can't do a ton about private ALPRs except put peanut butter on them or whatever when you see em

I remember reading that (some?) phones in airplane mode can still be pinged by the network to request their location and the call is answered directly by the blackbox modem rather than by Android/iOS bypassing most privacy features.

Airplane mode also usually keeps Bluetooth and WiFi enabled so that's one thing to look for.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#83

Post by Marazan »

surajrmal wrote: post #46
mensetmanusman wrote: post #10

The govt should fund $1,000,000 bug bounties on these vehicles. If anyone succeeds in remotely gaining access to the mic, car companies are fined $100,000,000.

I think that's more likely to get companies to remove mics than to make them secure.

Yes

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#84

Post by lan321 »

waste_monk wrote: post #70
oakstendheim wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish these options would become more common, maybe even similar to the whole ecosystem around old American muscle cars. Pick and choose a (mostly) standardized drive train, standardized battery packs of different capacities and and your electronics to connect everything together.

I thought the issue is more the batteries and weight distribution. That is, EVs usually have the batteries along the length of the chassis to spread the load out, which is not practical to retrofit onto an ICE car. And if you fill the engine bay on an ICE car with battery packs during the conversion, the weight distribution will be extremely uneven and cause trouble with the suspension and related components, poor ha…

Yeah, I don't believe even OEMs ever managed to make a very liked electric car on an ICE platform.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#85

Post by 0xEF »

achierius wrote: post #24
esalman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way they're going to keep a modular car functioning for years without relying on frequent software updates.

Concretely, why not? If you don't get updates, there's nothing to break the thing -- and if you don't have a network connection, you don't need the security updates.

I would be on board with this if the system was not touching the outside world, but it does every time you hook a smartphone to it or if you have an optional data network. Just like with our smartphones, there's nothing stopping a car company from pushing system-damaging updates when they want to steer us toward buying a new vehicle since that one is too outdated/no longer supported.

What you say can be true about a static isolated system, though. My employer has a Windows XP computer still running a machine in our factory. The PC was built built in 2006, connected to the Internet once upon deployment then disconnected thereafter. It has been running the software and machine more or less untouched since, receiving zero updates, performing it's duty as it was built to.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#86

Post by layoric »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #52
layoric wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, early 2010s IMO seems to be the point where the industry really started to shift. There are some good cars from before this time, but keep them running past the 2030s will be a challenge.

What happened in the early 2010s? 1980s widespread adoption of electronic fuel injection - this is generally a good thing, cars become more complex but run better more of the time 1990s widespread adoption of more advanced emissions control systems - for reliability i'd say this is only a backwards step - none of these systems are required to propel the car down the road but many of them can stop a car from driving.…

Software updates and data collection. Eg, my mums Toyota Corolla 2018 already has a disabled infotainment button because of dropped support. If it was a 2019 it would have been eligible for an update, but not for 2018.

Lots of cars from the same period are collecting and sharing data to various different companies from weather to insurance.

Personally I don’t want monitoring or software updates, and definitely don’t want any cloud dependencies.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#87

Post by zevon »

Terr_ wrote: post #6
zdw wrote: post #2

I'm fearing the day when my quite old ICE car dies and I end up in a situation where the best option is a newer car that is a computer on wheels running software that I know will stop getting updates very quickly. Of all the new cars ideas I've seen recently, only the Slate mini-truck seems to be taking a minimalist approach, with no fancy head unit or navigation system.

I'm hopeful that stuff like Android Auto or Apple CarPlay will continue moving some of the risky obsolete-able complexity away of the giant expensive machine I plan to keep for over a decade (the car) and into smaller easier-to-replace ones (my smartphone.) A quick outline for those who haven't used them: The car's head-display becomes mostly-controlled by your phone, which is what supplies any navigation, music, pod…

This is a bit of a two-edged sword. I kind of doubt that Carplay and Android Auto will keep working with new phones as long as a car can. At which point you will end up with an old smartphone in your car or some workaround like that.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#88

Post by verisimi »

tomrod wrote: post #20
esalman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way they're going to keep a modular car functioning for years without relying on frequent software updates.

Did it for 100 years. Nkthing changed. They don't need to make cars into surveillance systems. That's a choice.

This is the whole point: putting intermediaries between you and the things you think you own.

You think you own your car, phone, appliances, but actually, once this system is in place, you will effectively be on some sort of subscription contract with few traditional ownership rights, with many other parties (the car maker, government agencies) able to turn your car off remotely.

Nice and safe.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#89

Post by zorked »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #10

The govt should fund $1,000,000 bug bounties on these vehicles. If anyone succeeds in remotely gaining access to the mic, car companies are fined $100,000,000.

All you will get out of the government being involved is automatic police access to your car's mic.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#90

Post by regulimgfdi »

bobbyraduloff wrote: post #44

It’s quite upsetting that if you want a modern car so that you utilise the newest advances in safety, you have to consent to constant tracking, enshitification, subscription services, etc. It would be really cool if you could get something like a ‘67 impala that doesn’t make ‘67 emissions and has actual seatbelts and airbags…

It's really a regulatory problem, where I live my 2025 toyota has a big display saying "the car is unable to send or receive any data if you don't press press accept", pressing decline gives the car that out of cell range symbol. Doesen't prevent targeted surveillance nor mass government surveillance, but those are more about regulations too.
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