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Framework Laptop 16 Review

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Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#81

Post by whalesalad »

smoldesu wrote: post #79
whalesalad wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My M2 air will outlast the workday. Obscene battery life. I can’t imagine using a Linux notebook after this level of performance.

As long as you don't use Docker. My last job gave me an M1 Air for container debugging and devops, and it was a comically bad fit for the task. I ended up going back to my cheap x86 Linux host for most of the dirty work, just because it ran cooler. Now, if someone could find me a native Docker host that lasts all day... then we're in business.

I run all the heavy stuff on a remote dev node. My laptop is just vscode+ssh, tmux in iTerm, a browser, Spotify and slack.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#83

Post by nrp »

Hamuko wrote: post #68
pachico wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally never experienced a keyboard as comfortable as my fw13. I am coming from XPS ones and never tried ThinkPads, thought.

The LTT video says that the 16-inch Framework has a much worse keyboard than the 13-inch one.

The physical key mechanism is the same as on the Framework Laptop 13 (the same tooling too). The LTT video noted that they found flex in the mid plate that the keyboard rests on, which we are investigating.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#84

Post by smoldesu »

whalesalad wrote: post #81
smoldesu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you don't use Docker. My last job gave me an M1 Air for container debugging and devops, and it was a comically bad fit for the task. I ended up going back to my cheap x86 Linux host for most of the dirty work, just because it ran cooler. Now, if someone could find me a native Docker host that lasts all day... then we're in business.

I run all the heavy stuff on a remote dev node. My laptop is just vscode+ssh, tmux in iTerm, a browser, Spotify and slack.

The wave of the future! Half the people in my team did that, I didn't feel right about the EC2 costs. To each their own, I guess.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#85

Post by genman »

juujian wrote: post #31
RomanPushkin wrote: post #7

I wish they deliver good keyboard as well, like Thinkpads X201 or similar have. I am happy owner of modded X201 with updated screen, motherboard, and so on. It's not on a cheap side, but I'm happy to pay that price _only_ for the keyboard option. It's so cool. Folks back then knew what was important.

I hope with the new modular keyboard tray we will get some decent option. I would only buy it if there was one with a track point tbh, third party or otherwise.

Certainly the colorful led backlight must have been the highest priority.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#86

Post by p_l »

askonomm wrote: post #67
binkHN wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framework's hands are tied; the battery life with Apple's CPUs simply can't be touched by the biggest players like Intel and AMD.

Touched maybe not, but it's almost 20 hours worse. Surely it doesn't have to be THAT bad?

It's also a Linux issue that was ignored for years by users and done developers who instead pushed where possible reenabling clunkier older operating modes.

My understanding is that one of the reasons Linux on M-series macs doesn't have the problem is that Asahi team doesn't take similarly crappy attitude.

Also, the issue appears to show up on other 7040 Ryzen laptops, so I hope this finally gets us proper "modern sleep" support instead of instructions to disable it in firmware setup.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#87

Post by dinkleberg »

RomanPushkin wrote: post #7

I wish they deliver good keyboard as well, like Thinkpads X201 or similar have. I am happy owner of modded X201 with updated screen, motherboard, and so on. It's not on a cheap side, but I'm happy to pay that price _only_ for the keyboard option. It's so cool. Folks back then knew what was important.

It is unlikely, but I really hope they get an ortholinear keyboard option at some point. There is this thread[1] which has gotten my hopes up.

[1] https://community.frame.work/t/ortholinear-keyboard-option/3...

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#88

Post by nrp »

CarVac wrote: post #61
davewood wrote: post #25

how long will it run on battery? my FW13 12th gen (debian) lasts maybe 2 hours and even in suspend mode it drains way to fast (/sys/power/mem_sleep = deep)

Two hours?? I get 6 with Ubuntu on my 1240P Framework, and that's with the BIOS limiting the battery to 80%.

With 12th Gen, 6-7 hours looks like around what we'd expect for normal, real life usage on Linux. With 13th Gen or Ryzen 7040 Series, we've seen even better, e.g. (though on Windows for this reviewer): https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/05/review-framework-lap...

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#89

Post by LeifCarrotson »

binkHN wrote: post #51
RomanPushkin wrote: post #7

I wish they deliver good keyboard as well, like Thinkpads X201 or similar have. I am happy owner of modded X201 with updated screen, motherboard, and so on. It's not on a cheap side, but I'm happy to pay that price _only_ for the keyboard option. It's so cool. Folks back then knew what was important.

> ...modded X201 with updated ... motherboard... How far are you getting with these updates? I agree the keyboards of old are legendary, but at some point your productivity is negatively affected by legacy CPUs and related.

The X201 mods are pretty comprehensive, the 51NB team and others like XY Tech have commissioned entire replacement motherboards that carry i7-8550u or i7-10710u processors. See [1].

And the old 35W processors in some of these laptops will still deliver solid performance. The new ones will turbo higher, but throttle quicker. You get higher default clock speed and better thermals with the older processors. Of course memory bandwidth and peripheral connectivity are better with newer processors, but they're perfectly usable. If what you want to do to be productive is edit text and maybe render HTML and browse files, and your OS/IDE/browser does not place unnecessary demands on your computer, then an X201, especially modded, cannot be the blame for your lack of productivity.

https://www.xyte.ch/

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#90

Post by happymellon »

Hamuko wrote: post #68
pachico wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally never experienced a keyboard as comfortable as my fw13. I am coming from XPS ones and never tried ThinkPads, thought.

The LTT video says that the 16-inch Framework has a much worse keyboard than the 13-inch one.

Do you know what is the travel on the 13 and 16 Framework keyboards?
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