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Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

businessinsider.com

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Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#81

Post by neogodless »

camel_gopher wrote: post #62
rappatic wrote: post #58

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

Sounds like the use case is perfect for a hybrid which does 30 miles electric.

I think that's why the article suggests exactly that.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#82

Post by drfuchs »

throwitaway222 wrote: post #63
rappatic wrote: post #58

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

This. I'm not sure why plugin hybrids are not a thing.... actually, I don't even want a plugin "hybrid" I want an EV that never uses the ICE unless you run out of power, then it's just an ICE vehicle entirely... In other words I want something they will never build.

Well, the discontinued Chevy Volt is just that: 50ish miles on electrons from the plug-in battery; only then a few hundred on a tank of gas via the ICE. So, no range anxiety, and you can likely commute on battery alone. Can’t imagine why they didn’t sell well; I like mine fine, and find I do only about 20% of my travel in gas-mode.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#83

Post by lukas099 »

TIPSIO wrote: post #57
TexanFeller wrote: post #15

I want an EV to be more reliable and save me more money in the long run. EVs start out ~10k more than the Corolla most people should buying. They then compromise the long term reliability and maintenance cost with high tech gee whiz features. I’d sooner have manual roll up windows than touch screen controlled air vents. When you integrate sensors and software controls into every little thing, we know those things wil…

I kind of agree actually on your cost points. It’s still a luxury purchase. I am a bit more conservative of a saver but feel priced out and sadly went ICE. If you qualify for the EV tax credit, I would argue the car is too expensive for your budget. If you don’t qualify barely, a brand new ICE vehicle is going to last years and be cheaper. Is it really worth it to push budget? If you way don’t qualify, definitely buy…

I thought hybrids were the cost-conscious choice currently?

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#84

Post by iknowstuff »

protocolture wrote: post #80
rappatic wrote: post #58

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

Yep. I have a Diesel. My average trip length will be roughly 60km. However, 4 - 8 times a year I need to go much further. Last year a single round trip for work was roughly 2200 km. And that was through extreme rural environments. The vast majority of places I stopped to refill the vehicle did not have electric service. Average trips being serviceable doesnt help me. I dont buy a vehicle assuming it will work on aver…

Could you share an example of such a trip? Let's toss it into ABRP

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#85

Post by femto »

eichin wrote: post #77
femto wrote: post #45

Why don't electric cars use replaceable battery modules with a standard form factor? Advantages would include: 1) It allows the battery to be easily replaced as the car gets older. 2) With a suitable generic form factor, it would allow batteries to be upgraded as technology changes. 3) It would allow people to only populate enough battery slots for their daily needs. Communing to work: you only need to insert a few b…

10 years ago: "Better Place" burned through about $1B trying exactly that. Today: "Nio Power" has gotten a lot further, with more cars and a chain of robo-garages to do the swap in a couple of minutes. (Still a single unified module, but it's not clear anyone needs to manage several-hundred-pound modules just yet, maybe when it scales a bit more...)

I'm not thinking that battery replacement would be seen as a way of recharging or be done on the road. It would be infrequently done, when a change in capacity/technology is required or the module is worn out.

The interface specification could go beyond the electrical, including things such as heat removal.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#86

Post by jitl »

The electric offerings from most companies just don’t seem “there” yet. I don’t want a Tesla because AirPlay and adjustable aircon grates are non-negotiable for me, but the alternatives just don’t seem like a good bet yet. Hyundai is compelling, but most brands are offering electrified versions of non-EV platforms. An EV platform with low drag is much better, but outside of Tesla and Hyundai no one seems to be shipping an EV platform car in the $40k price range.

Then when it comes to plug in hybrids, Toyota RAV4 Prime looks great, but options from other makes look kinda like a joke with 20-30mi range and the ICE engine kicks in whenever you accelerate, or are similarly super expensive to the BEVs.

My plan is to just buy an ICE car now, and then sell it in a couple years once brands start fielding their second generation electric platforms with better economics, NACS (Tesla) plugs, and the infra catches up a bit.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#87

Post by talldatethrow »

I think EVs give me LESS range anxiety overall. In my gas car days, atleast once a month I was late for work or an event AND low on gas. Having to remember and think about getting gas was constantly on my mind because I have a pretty long commute.

With an electric car, I start every day, always, with a full tank. No matter how late I'm running, I know there won't be a surprise that I need gas in addition to being late.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#88

Post by kbrackbill »

lukas099 wrote: post #75
rappatic wrote: post #58

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

I think what makes it hard to be realistic about these things is that they're all aspirational. People want to be the kind of people who have parties, have guests often, do big projects that need a truck. Admitting to yourself that you don't need these things is admitting that you're not living up to the ideal in your head.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#89

Post by tw04 »

rappatic wrote: post #58

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

I’d argue most families have two cars though. So you get one EV and keep the ICE until the charging infrastructure is where it needs to be.

Another alternative is to just rent a car for that long road trip which I’ve done in the past.

That being said, I think far more people worry about daily mileage than you think. People think in terms of time spent driving, not distance. They tend to assume every hour is 60 miles and reality is for most it’s nowhere near that. I’ve had my wife lose her mind that the car is warning about range with 25 miles remaining and she’s 6 miles from home. Humans tend to be REALLY bad about estimating the distance of something but really good about estimating time.

If someone were to ask you how far your office is from the airport, I bet you’d respond with how long it takes to get there, not how many miles it is away.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#90

Post by Swizec »

rappatic wrote: post #58

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

> 93% of trips are less than 30 miles, but the vast majority of drivers take occasional trips that are beyond the range of an electric car

I live in a dense city and don’t own a car. For most of my regular trips, a bicycle is faster and more convenient than a car.

Any time we do rent a car, it’s for trips longer than 100mi. Weekend trips and such. An EV absolutely does not fit our usecase. We tried renting a Tesla once and it was … not great.

Yes we’re probably and edge case. But there’s lots of people living in dense cities. That’s why they’re dense.

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