Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft Will Eventually Start Charging You for Windows 10 Security Updates

gizmodo.com

81–90 of 92 posts

Re: Microsoft Will Eventually Start Charging You for Windows 10 Security Updates

#81

When W10 finally stops getting updates, I'm almost certainly going to have to jump back to Linux on my gaming PC. Nothing on this Earth could make me use Windows 11. I highly doubt Windows 12 will be any better.

I remember people saying this about XP to Vista, then 7 to 8, then 8 to 10, now 10 to 11... If you're on 10 now then you've gone through this cycle several times already; Microsoft is slow-boiling frogs and it seems to work for them.

Re: Microsoft Will Eventually Start Charging You for Windows 10 Security Updates

#82
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you expect this would look like? That's a billion dollar project if you consider the scale of the people involved in making it happen. And it would likely be better of spent on improving Linux desktop UX, which many nontechnical people already don't have serious objections to.

The core problem with linux is that it is built and maintained by people who love linux. It has lead to an OS that is great for grandmas and great for the linux tech nerd grandson who set it up for her. But its an exercise in masochistic self flagellation to be a tech nerd with no interest in linux (learning OS structure and CLI syntax) to use it on a daily basis. Linux is extremely powerful via the command line. But…

Linux is closer to being a generally accessible OS than ever before, especially with Valve pushing it as a 1st class platform for gaming.

A desktop environment like KDE is a fully modern, integrated desktop even down to being able to use KDE Connect to use your smart phone from your desktop.

You mentioned hating Ubuntu and 3 other distros, but really the fundamental differences between distros is mostly how they package software, and how frequently they downstream new software. Install something like Pop_OS, never touch a terminal and move on.

Re: Microsoft Will Eventually Start Charging You for Windows 10 Security Updates

#83
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I have no interest in learning/memorizing commands. Of course they're UX issues that could be improved, especially with Canonical trying to push Snap on people, but I'm more inclined to believe many peoples' exasperation with the Linux desktop experience is really due to long-standing familiarity with Windows. The things you "have to learn" as an enthusiast coming from the Windows ecosystem are things that by i…

Yes, correct, exactly. So I need someone to make an OS with the longstanding windows user in mind. Using a GUI absolutely is easier. I need drop down lists and check boxes. Mouse hover tips and visual menus. Not some cryptographic string of command line arguments that I am futilely copy+pasting from some random web page.

It's easier to you because you're already familiar with it. But as someone that hasn't regularly used Windows in many years, I find performing administrative tasks and any kind of troubleshooting via Windows's opaque graphical interfaces to be a very manual and nail-pulling experience.

Additionally, graphical interfaces have a lot of downsides, as Microsoft themselves has discovered as evidenced by how over the past couple years they've been promoting PowerShell as a way to automate administrative tasks on Windows themselves and allow powerusers to pass around PowerShell invocations for quick fixes in the same way users of every other OS have for decades.

Re: Microsoft Will Eventually Start Charging You for Windows 10 Security Updates

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixing what? There are multiple sections in the guide addressing the task bar and start menu depending on what you’re looking to address.

You cannot drag files onto it to open in other programs or copy/move them, last I checked. This is a showstopper for my workflow. I just want to drag a file over my explorer icon, choose the window from the popup preview that I want to move it to, have the window get focus, and drop it in the window to move it. Or drag a file over a program icon, have the program get focus, and drop the file on it to open it. Apparen…

I just made a very cursory look into this, but this is possibly that a Group Policy default that has changed to a different setting in Windows 11 than it had been in previous versions of Windows.

It absolutely does work if you disable UAC via Group Policy, but disabling UAC in my opinion is much a step too far as that loosens security in too many areas and would greatly increase Windows 11's attack surface.

I'll open an issue to investigate trying to identify the Group Policy setting to change to specifically re-enable this behavior without disabling UAC. Be advised that it'll be a few weeks as I'll be waiting until the January patch to drop (should be January 9th, 2024) for me to test prior to the January 2024 update to the guide.

Re: Microsoft Will Eventually Start Charging You for Windows 10 Security Updates

#85
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you expect this would look like? That's a billion dollar project if you consider the scale of the people involved in making it happen. And it would likely be better of spent on improving Linux desktop UX, which many nontechnical people already don't have serious objections to.

The core problem with linux is that it is built and maintained by people who love linux. It has lead to an OS that is great for grandmas and great for the linux tech nerd grandson who set it up for her. But its an exercise in masochistic self flagellation to be a tech nerd with no interest in linux (learning OS structure and CLI syntax) to use it on a daily basis. Linux is extremely powerful via the command line. But…

> But its an exercise in masochistic self flagellation to be a tech nerd with no interest in linux (learning OS structure and CLI syntax)

Somewhat true. But ... it's also true for Windows. Did you see the post above? https://github.com/GoofGarage/Win11Clean. It's a very long list of instructions just to get the think installed in a way that keeps most of Microsoft's fingers out of your pockets and while keeping the familiar Windows interface. But if you follow it you will have a non-standard install, and later some overnight upgrade will break it.

Re: Microsoft Will Eventually Start Charging You for Windows 10 Security Updates

#86
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time there is a new Windows people say this and also mention how the previous version was so much better. It reminds me of the US election cycle where people say they're gonna move to Canada if person A wins. Earlier this year I switched to Windows 11 then installed ExplorerPatcher, now its just like Windows 10 and I no longer care that is its Windows 11.

WinXP and 7 were the peak. I tolerated 10, but as of this year I no longer own a windows machine and do not plan on ever owning one again.

The Service Packs degraded the XP-rience, IMO. I preferred 98SE or 2000 in a lot of ways. Happily loving Linux.

Re: Microsoft Will Eventually Start Charging You for Windows 10 Security Updates

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot drag files onto it to open in other programs or copy/move them, last I checked. This is a showstopper for my workflow. I just want to drag a file over my explorer icon, choose the window from the popup preview that I want to move it to, have the window get focus, and drop it in the window to move it. Or drag a file over a program icon, have the program get focus, and drop the file on it to open it. Apparen…

I just made a very cursory look into this, but this is possibly that a Group Policy default that has changed to a different setting in Windows 11 than it had been in previous versions of Windows. It absolutely does work if you disable UAC via Group Policy, but disabling UAC in my opinion is much a step too far as that loosens security in too many areas and would greatly increase Windows 11's attack surface. I'll open…

> I'll open an issue to investigate

Wow, that's awesome. Thanks! (I love HN)

Re: Microsoft Will Eventually Start Charging You for Windows 10 Security Updates

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I had similar concerns regarding Windows 11, but I sat down, learned how to clean it up, and put a Creative Commons open source guide for others to follow. I knew many other reluctant friends who are senior devs at prolific companies in the tech space, and with my guide they seem to have no real remaining complaints. It covers both the initial installation, as well as all my post-install recommendations. It elimin…

I've bookmarked your guide, and will use it when I setup a W11 machine in 2025. I haven't used 11 yet, but I understand the taskbar is no longer full length and is now more like the mac dock. Is there a fix for that other than installing something like OpenShell?

I had more problems with it being quite wide and not being able to move to top of screen

That may be fixed with https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher which restores win10 bar, there's no builtin solution to any of the above afaik

Labels, combining, alignment and displayed system icons (search, etc) may be configured in settings

Re: Microsoft Will Eventually Start Charging You for Windows 10 Security Updates

#90
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've bookmarked your guide, and will use it when I setup a W11 machine in 2025. I haven't used 11 yet, but I understand the taskbar is no longer full length and is now more like the mac dock. Is there a fix for that other than installing something like OpenShell?

I had more problems with it being quite wide and not being able to move to top of screen That may be fixed with https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher which restores win10 bar, there's no builtin solution to any of the above afaik Labels, combining, alignment and displayed system icons (search, etc) may be configured in settings

Honestly I don't even use the win10 bar because it wouldn't let me ungroup applications even if the setting to do so was checked.

I have two monitors, and might want some distances of the same application to be on separate taskbars with two monitors, and it just wouldn't respect that at all.

I use OpenShell currently, but I really shouldn't have to.

Post reply on HN