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Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

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Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#81

Post by itake »

kredd wrote: post #74
londons_explore wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you visit Georgia (the country, not the state), they have a cool system for cash payments to websites. You go on the website, order your stuff. When the normal payment screen that comes up, instead of Mastercard or visa, you choose "Cash". You'll then be sent a text message with a number (or the number appears on the screen if you don't have a phone). You go to any ATM anywhere in the country, put that number into…

That is still depended on some sort of payment rails though, no? Bank, government or whoever can decline transactions to that “cash” action.

I think what is different though is they don't know what you're buying (I think).

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#82

Post by raincom »

aardvark179 wrote: post #61
raincom wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost is not so much about paying armored trucks, but most banks don't want to deal with small businesses that deal with cash.

In the UK the banks are happy to deal with businesses paying cash, but there are fees, and if your holding cash on premises then you’ll need insurance, which means you’ll need a safe… The reason supermarkets offered cash back was that this allowed them to massively reduce the amount of cash held on site and thus reduce their insurance costs.

Large chains, large businesses have no problems accepting cash, nor do they have problems depositing cash with banks. Even if a mega bank, say, Chase/Bank of America in the states, doesn't want to deal with cash deposits from a large retailer, the latter can indirectly 'own' a credit union or another small bank that accepts cash deposits, as this bank can still follow AML regulations. Big banks consider cash deposits/withdrawals and money order deposits to be a big headache, and also back office costs for enforcing AML can be reduced by not dealing with cash/money orders (in other words, any untraceable monetary instruments).

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#83

Post by ksherlock »

SoftTalker wrote: post #12

I encounter more businesses that only take cash than I do those that refuse it. A couple of local restaurants, and my barber. Though one of the restaurants recently also started accepting Zelle. I can't think of anyplace local that refuses cash but there are several others that offer a discount for cash.

The OP article is about the UK and in fact many place in the UK do not accept cash. My understanding is that trend accelerated, if not started, during COVID.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#84

Post by danpalmer »

Animatronio wrote: post #27
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it mostly crime related shenanigans? Not having to carry a wallet anymore. Never going to the ATM. No need to pocket loose change. Quicker checkout times.

Are these really inconveniences? Most of the times I've had trouble paying for stuff were usually at supermarkets or gas stations where the credit card reader would refuse to acknowledge my card. Swiping/inserting/touching, not even cursing worked so without cash on hand I'd have had to surrender my ID to the clerk, take a cab to the closest ATM and return with cash.

I've been using cards nearly exclusively my entire adult life, and I can only think of one time that my card had an issue, and it turned out my whole bank was down for ~1 hour. Inconvenient, but I can think of more times I've forgotten to have enough cash with me, and I barely use cash at all now.

In the UK and Australia where I normally am, card infrastructure is just so entirely universal and reliable that it's not even worth considering.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#85

Post by carlosjobim »

3pt14159 wrote: post #29
shishy wrote: post #10

Cash is great. Can't be tracked, credit card companies don't get to discriminate against the poor and create negative feedback loop traps that they can't out of, it's easier to be financially responsible with it. Bit unfortunate too that paying with cash just adds a tax onto the poor since the fees are basically priced into goods sold at stores, typically regardless of whether or not cash is used. But yeah, nice to h…

> Can't be tracked If that were true, then criminal elements wouldn't need to severely launder their money. It's a spectrum. Cash can be tracked, each legitimate bill has a unique serial number, and yes, at least at present I haven't heard of private actors outside of those that service law enforcement tracking it, but the reality is that if you withdraw $8k to pay for a motorcycle and hand it to a guy that sells you…

I have to apologize, but you don't understand what the concept of "laundering money" means. It has nothing to do with tracking cash bills through serial numbers and it has never had anything to do with that.

"Laundering money" means that criminals make transactions in order to use cash they have from their illicit gains within the general economy, ie get it into a bank account and being able to declare where they got the money from.

> the reality is that if you withdraw $8k to pay for a motorcycle and hand it to a guy that sells you the motorcycle and then deposits it straight into his own bank account then yes, this is quite obviously tracked.

Not at all.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#86

Post by Seattle3503 »

londons_explore wrote: post #56
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could a website function with cash payments at all?

If you visit Georgia (the country, not the state), they have a cool system for cash payments to websites. You go on the website, order your stuff. When the normal payment screen that comes up, instead of Mastercard or visa, you choose "Cash". You'll then be sent a text message with a number (or the number appears on the screen if you don't have a phone). You go to any ATM anywhere in the country, put that number into…

Do you have an account with the ATM provider? I'm wondering how these payment providers are in compliance with KYC and KYT regulatuons.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#87

Post by matsemann »

thegrim33 wrote: post #47

The primary benefit of cashless is pretty much just the ability to be lazy. You swipe a card in a reader instead of having to count out cash. That's the major benefit. All things being equal, sure, it's more convenient. But all things are not equal; in my opinion the potential negatives that others in the thread have listed overwhelmingly outweigh the ability to be more lazy. That so many people have the desire to di…

It's dishonest to portray it as if it is only about being "lazy".

If all digital payment did was that I didn't have to present the correct amount of bills from my wallet, you might have had a point. But that's like almost on the bottom of the list of benefits being cashless provides.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#88

Post by harimau777 »

medler wrote: post #36
standardUser wrote: post #9

On a recent trip to Europe I didn't take out cash once over 3 weeks across 3 countries. I brought 50 euros with me and that was all I needed! Everything else was just a quick tap of the phone, including every metro system outside of Paris. My only hesitation to getting rid of cash entirely - how will I buy drugs? I don't gamble illegally or pay for sex, but I imagine those services would also struggle in an increasin…

If the only argument against getting rid of cash is that it would make it harder to commit crimes, that sounds like a good reason to get rid of cash. I like cash because I like my privacy but cash making it easier to do crime is an unfortunate side effect, not an end in itself.

The problem is that the government often creates crimes that citizens don't agree with. Or the majority uses the law to try to force their preferences on the minority.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#89

Post by danpalmer »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #67

Even if it weren't a terrible, awful idea from a democratic point of view, it's just silly from a logistic point of view. This means you create a single point of failure for your entire society: electricity provision. Got a power shot down? Suddenly nobody can buy anything. Got a war on your territory? Your trade routes will get destroyed 4 times faster. Want to be a reserve currency? Guess what, now you have to do l…

Most stores aren't going to be able to sell you anything with no power, regardless of taking card or cash, because sales need to go into a database via a register, update inventory, etc. Sure a few small family run businesses, maybe restaurants, might be able to take cash, but almost no chains will be able to run and that's most stores in most places.
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