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Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

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Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#21

Post by walterbell »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17
Seattle3503 wrote: post #13

My concerns about a cashless society are the power it hands to a few oligopolistic credit card processors. Look at what happened to Pornhub. Regardless of whether you think Pornhub was in the wrong, it is striking that a business was cut off from global financial system by a small number of credit card companies. This was done without due process and under no countries laws. That should scare us at least a little.

How could a website function with cash payments at all?

No one is arguing for a cash-only society.

Digital has use cases.

Cash has use cases.

We can have both.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#22

Post by akiselev »

standardUser wrote: post #9

On a recent trip to Europe I didn't take out cash once over 3 weeks across 3 countries. I brought 50 euros with me and that was all I needed! Everything else was just a quick tap of the phone, including every metro system outside of Paris. My only hesitation to getting rid of cash entirely - how will I buy drugs? I don't gamble illegally or pay for sex, but I imagine those services would also struggle in an increasin…

> how will I buy drugs?

A decade ago my friends were already paying for drugs with Venmo. The dealers aren’t very careful because they’re rarely caught on the financial side. If the recent revelations are anything to go by, they’re probably using Cash app now.

Ironically it’s the legal dispensaries that have problems accepting digital payments - they usually require cash with an ATM on-site.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#23

Post by incone123 »

shishy wrote: post #10

Cash is great. Can't be tracked, credit card companies don't get to discriminate against the poor and create negative feedback loop traps that they can't out of, it's easier to be financially responsible with it. Bit unfortunate too that paying with cash just adds a tax onto the poor since the fees are basically priced into goods sold at stores, typically regardless of whether or not cash is used. But yeah, nice to h…

There is a cost to handling cash too. Don't know how it compares to cards but with the latter you don't need to have fleets of armored trucks to move money around and robbers can only steal stock.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#25

Post by Seattle3503 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17
Seattle3503 wrote: post #13

My concerns about a cashless society are the power it hands to a few oligopolistic credit card processors. Look at what happened to Pornhub. Regardless of whether you think Pornhub was in the wrong, it is striking that a business was cut off from global financial system by a small number of credit card companies. This was done without due process and under no countries laws. That should scare us at least a little.

How could a website function with cash payments at all?

I don't know.

Cash is nearly impossible to use on the internet. The web is a window into what the physical world will look like without cash. Incidents like Pornhub's show us the power a few companies will wield over us when the transition to cashless happens.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#26

Post by walterbell »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18
SoftTalker wrote: post #12

I encounter more businesses that only take cash than I do those that refuse it. A couple of local restaurants, and my barber. Though one of the restaurants recently also started accepting Zelle. I can't think of anyplace local that refuses cash but there are several others that offer a discount for cash.

Opposite in my part of the world. Lots of businesses aren’t taking a cash anymore. The only ones I know that deal with cash only are marijuana dispensaries, which are popular targets for thugs as a result.

In New York City, San Francisco, Philadelphia: all businesses accept cash, as required by municipal law.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#27

Post by Animatronio »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14
shishy wrote: post #10

Cash is great. Can't be tracked, credit card companies don't get to discriminate against the poor and create negative feedback loop traps that they can't out of, it's easier to be financially responsible with it. Bit unfortunate too that paying with cash just adds a tax onto the poor since the fees are basically priced into goods sold at stores, typically regardless of whether or not cash is used. But yeah, nice to h…

> Is it mostly crime related shenanigans? Not having to carry a wallet anymore. Never going to the ATM. No need to pocket loose change. Quicker checkout times.

Are these really inconveniences? Most of the times I've had trouble paying for stuff were usually at supermarkets or gas stations where the credit card reader would refuse to acknowledge my card. Swiping/inserting/touching, not even cursing worked so without cash on hand I'd have had to surrender my ID to the clerk, take a cab to the closest ATM and return with cash.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#28

Post by feyes »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14
shishy wrote: post #10

Cash is great. Can't be tracked, credit card companies don't get to discriminate against the poor and create negative feedback loop traps that they can't out of, it's easier to be financially responsible with it. Bit unfortunate too that paying with cash just adds a tax onto the poor since the fees are basically priced into goods sold at stores, typically regardless of whether or not cash is used. But yeah, nice to h…

> Is it mostly crime related shenanigans? Not having to carry a wallet anymore. Never going to the ATM. No need to pocket loose change. Quicker checkout times.

Points or rebates too.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#29

Post by 3pt14159 »

shishy wrote: post #10

Cash is great. Can't be tracked, credit card companies don't get to discriminate against the poor and create negative feedback loop traps that they can't out of, it's easier to be financially responsible with it. Bit unfortunate too that paying with cash just adds a tax onto the poor since the fees are basically priced into goods sold at stores, typically regardless of whether or not cash is used. But yeah, nice to h…

> Can't be tracked

If that were true, then criminal elements wouldn't need to severely launder their money. It's a spectrum. Cash can be tracked, each legitimate bill has a unique serial number, and yes, at least at present I haven't heard of private actors outside of those that service law enforcement tracking it, but the reality is that if you withdraw $8k to pay for a motorcycle and hand it to a guy that sells you the motorcycle and then deposits it straight into his own bank account then yes, this is quite obviously tracked.

For more information I suggest getting some books on Terrorist Financing for the new meta. There is a former Canadian Security Intelligence Service lady out there that wrote a whole book on it recently.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#30

Post by skeeter2020 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17
Seattle3503 wrote: post #13

My concerns about a cashless society are the power it hands to a few oligopolistic credit card processors. Look at what happened to Pornhub. Regardless of whether you think Pornhub was in the wrong, it is striking that a business was cut off from global financial system by a small number of credit card companies. This was done without due process and under no countries laws. That should scare us at least a little.

How could a website function with cash payments at all?

I think you're missing the point of the example. It wasn't that websites can't function without cash payments, but that without cash you're held hostage to the whims of a few gatekeepers (like PH).
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