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Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

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Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#81

Post by bayindirh »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #41
FooHentai wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That we have this bizarre attitude of permissiveness and time salvation around cheaters in competition is frankly bizarre. What other argument is there than to refuse to engage. It is not difficult to simply never cheat, in the same way that it is not difficult to simp…

> I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That’s absolutely not the rule and neither you nor Carlsen get to decide that. There is no permissiveness here. Hans has played according to the rule of the tournament. There is no evidence of cheating. That’s it. Unless you have proof of what you are advancing, you…

> There is no permissiveness here.

Shall we permissive against people who cheated, or who admitted to have cheated?

If this is permissible, or even acceptable why we have a word for this?

Note: Consider this as a meta question. This is not related to Hans or Magnus, but to humans at large, incl. me and you.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#82

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

tibbar wrote: post #53
tromp wrote: post #23

Applying sound statistical methods to thousands of Niemann games, cheating expert Ken Regan finds no evidence of cheating [1]. > The verdict > Dr. Regan analyzed all of Hans Niemann's games over the last two years, including online games, such as played on Chess.com and their events, and his conclusion is there is no reason whatsoever to suspect him of cheating. The wide range of results in a bell curve, with some go…

This is a strong point in Hans's favor, and Regan is very reputable, but he's also going against the Chess.com team (and Hans himself!) in claiming that he finds no evidence of Hans cheating *online* either.

His analysis is on games in the last two years, and Hans' admitted cheating online is before that.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#83

Post by nextlevelwizard »

tibbar wrote: post #53
tromp wrote: post #23

Applying sound statistical methods to thousands of Niemann games, cheating expert Ken Regan finds no evidence of cheating [1]. > The verdict > Dr. Regan analyzed all of Hans Niemann's games over the last two years, including online games, such as played on Chess.com and their events, and his conclusion is there is no reason whatsoever to suspect him of cheating. The wide range of results in a bell curve, with some go…

This is a strong point in Hans's favor, and Regan is very reputable, but he's also going against the Chess.com team (and Hans himself!) in claiming that he finds no evidence of Hans cheating *online* either.

I think the important bit is the "last two years". Niemann has admitted cheating like 5-6 years ago.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#84

Post by qwerty456127 »

tromp wrote: post #23

Applying sound statistical methods to thousands of Niemann games, cheating expert Ken Regan finds no evidence of cheating [1]. > The verdict > Dr. Regan analyzed all of Hans Niemann's games over the last two years, including online games, such as played on Chess.com and their events, and his conclusion is there is no reason whatsoever to suspect him of cheating. The wide range of results in a bell curve, with some go…

How can one even cheat in chess? When I was a kid we used to distract the opponent and move some figures as he didn't watch. Apparently this is not the case but I can hardly imagine another way.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#85

Post by xiphias2 »

radarsat1 wrote: post #45
xiphias2 wrote: post #32

I love what Magnus is doing. Of course can't accuse Hans of cheating, because AlphaZero works much more similar to humans than alpha-beta search. The article shows the amount of pressure tournament organizers are putting on him, but nowdays the money is in streaming more than in tournaments.

> because AlphaZero works much more similar to humans than alpha-beta search. Just curious, what do you base that on? Is there a relevant article? If so I'd love to read it.

I think the best is just to listen to videos of Demis Hassabis (Lex Friedman interview was great as well).

He loves to talk about how much it shocked the go community when AlphaGo created new moves / strategies that humans could learn as opposed to just brute force search algorithms. And of course it translated to chess as well somewhat.

https://www.fnac.pt/Game-Changer-AlphaZero-s-Groundbreaking-...

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#86

Post by bosie »

dane-pgp wrote: post #19
Arnavion wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it turns out Niemann cheated, the way Carlsen is acting coy about it puts me off. The tweet was bad enough (unlike Mourinho he's clearly not in "big trouble" from his insinuation), but this resignation is such a publicity stunt.

Maybe Carlsen doesn't know who to blame. He could suspect Niemann, or someone on Niemann's team, or someone in his own team, or a backdoor in Stockfish, or (depending on Carlsen's own mental health right now) space aliens. I can understand that out of an abundance of caution (and on the advice of his lawyers) he doesn't want to name anyone in particular, although seeing so many fingers pointed at Niemann (understanda…

How can it be someone from his own team? If someone from his own team leaked the prep to Niemann and Niemann prepared against it, that isn't even cheating on Niemann's part?

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#87

Post by ramraj07 »

spoonjim wrote: post #46
ramraj07 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who’s never been able to appreciate or follow sports where a machine can be an order of magnitude better than a human, I would genuinely like to understand why people are enamored about such sports. In the end it seems like brilliant minds lost in math that’s not even novel anymore.. again everyone should do what they please, but this is just an academic question from someone unable to appreciate such skil…

Aren't machines better than humans at most sports? Hand off a football to an Abrams tank and it's not getting tackled on its way to the goal line.

Absolutely. That’s why I’ve never been able to follow or watch any sport. Except maybe Ronny Sullivan playing snooker? Anyways the point is I have never been able to appreciate the value of sports as something you watch.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#88

Post by nextlevelwizard »

smeagull wrote: post #63
tromp wrote: post #23

Applying sound statistical methods to thousands of Niemann games, cheating expert Ken Regan finds no evidence of cheating [1]. > The verdict > Dr. Regan analyzed all of Hans Niemann's games over the last two years, including online games, such as played on Chess.com and their events, and his conclusion is there is no reason whatsoever to suspect him of cheating. The wide range of results in a bell curve, with some go…

Quoted post unavailable.

What would you have wanted?

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#89

Post by rglullis »

Macha wrote: post #9
ramraj07 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who’s never been able to appreciate or follow sports where a machine can be an order of magnitude better than a human, I would genuinely like to understand why people are enamored about such sports. In the end it seems like brilliant minds lost in math that’s not even novel anymore.. again everyone should do what they please, but this is just an academic question from someone unable to appreciate such skil…

Why care about racing when a motor vehicle can do travel at speed better, by that logic?

Good question... Why should we care?

It's like "okay, here we have a bunch of genetically gifted people who spend their whole lives training for that. Why should we care whether someone can run 100m in less than 10s or not? What difference does it make to any of us if Usain Bolt is the fastest man to run the 200m on a very controlled environment?"

This is not to say that running as an activity is useless, or that we should give up on exercising. I don't know if that is the point from OP, but I myself do question why we collectively think that is so important to devote so much time and resources in trying to optimize for these crazy, arbitrarily-constrained scenarios that we call "sports".

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#90

Post by linkdd »

FooHentai wrote: post #29
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand why people are going out their way to justify Carlsen attitude. What we have is the world champion throwing a tantrum because he lost against a player there is absolutely no evidence has cheated against him and is now calling for him to be expelled despite having no evidence whatsoever. This is harassment pure and simple. The whole thing is disgraceful and reflects extremely badly on competitive ch…

I'm with Carlsen on this. If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good. That we have this bizarre attitude of permissiveness and time salvation around cheaters in competition is frankly bizarre. What other argument is there than to refuse to engage. It is not difficult to simply never cheat, in the same way that it is not difficult to simp…

> If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good

Yeah, justice!

If you steal something once in your life, straight to jail, for good. If you have a speeding ticket, no more driver license for the rest of your life.

After all, people don't change, any mistake in life should be fatal and destroy your entire future.

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