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Expats are moving to Portugal

latimes.com

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Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#81

Post by pjc50 »

Kaze404 wrote: post #21
jorl17 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of my friends are very much employed, pretty smart (they'd get a job pretty much anywhere, probably FAANG, too) and they are either out of the country or want to get out. In general, they want higher salaries (like you mentioned), but there also seems to be a clear disdain for most of the portuguese cultural heritage, to be honest. This might be an ecochamber (I'd put money on it being the case) but most people…

> I find it somewhat atrocious how much we like to tell the great stories of how we went and stole, raped, killed and enslaved during the time of the discoveries, all for our own pleasure (and that of our religion). Is that really the general consensus over there? I'm trying to think of a way someone would rationalize decimating entire tribes over wood as a good thing but I'm coming up short.

> rationalize decimating entire tribes over wood

"Look at this cool palace we built and all the rare and exotic wood we used!"

"Where did you get the wood again?"

(See the general argument about decolonisation and re-contextualising within European countries, and fights over things like the Edward Colston statue)

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#82

Post by dgellow »

nmfisher wrote: post #51
deanCommie wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The food is bad Dear, your credibility: Goodbye.

Never been, but after visiting Spain last year, I struggle to believe Portugal has bad food.

In my experience Portuguese food taste wonderfully, definitely something to try out. But it is very rich in lipids and sugar. It’s also quite hard to find interesting things if you’re vegetarian or vegan.

I would recommend to try their fish and seafood, it’s fantastic.

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#83

Post by dgellow »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #58

I've always loved how migrants become expats when they're white. I had thought it was exclusively a preserve of the British in anywhere in Europe that's sunny, and people who moved to Singapore or Dubai for the money, but hey, welcome to the club, Californians into yoga!

I know that in the US these topics are often conflated, but it isn’t necessarily about race, more about social class and how much money you have.

But you’re right, not all migrants are treated or categorized the same way.

I’m myself an expatriate, I left my country and immigrated somewhere else. Nobody would ever call me a migrant even if it is technically correct because I don’t match the stereotype (due to my nationality, social class, money, etc).

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#84

Post by factcheckdec »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #74
wenc wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think expatriate actually has a different shade of meaning from migrant. Expats are typically people living outside their country on a non-permanent basis (on assignment or some temporary basis), with no intention to permanent emigrate to the country. Immigrants however are people who move to a country with the intention of settling there permanently. From the article's description, it sounds like these folks are e…

I've always thought that the key difference is attitude to the host country. Expatriates don't want to (or don't think they need to) attempt to integrate, migrants do. I've met British people who've been in NZ since the 1980s who still consider themselves ex-pats - and can still complain about how our Weetbix is nothing like good ol Weetabix. But then I've met people from Britain who've been here for 10 years, and co…

> I've met British people who've been in NZ since the 1980s who still consider themselves ex-pats - and can still complain about how our Weetbix is nothing like good ol Weetabix.

How is this different to any other migrant who misses something from their homeland? Why does it bother you, and why do you see it as an indication of a deficiency of mindset? Shall I similarly hold something against migrants in the UK who prefer something about their homeland? I can't imagine keeping this attitude.

I've lived in other countries but have never called myself an expat. In my experience, the term has been used exclusively by others, mostly non-white people, to describe me.

It's no different from Chinese migrant communities in my hometown calling themselves "Overseas Chinese".

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#85

Post by shankr »

maxlamb wrote: post #46
jorl17 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of my friends are very much employed, pretty smart (they'd get a job pretty much anywhere, probably FAANG, too) and they are either out of the country or want to get out. In general, they want higher salaries (like you mentioned), but there also seems to be a clear disdain for most of the portuguese cultural heritage, to be honest. This might be an ecochamber (I'd put money on it being the case) but most people…

It’s kind of ironic because a lot of Californians moving to Portugal are also trying to escape some aspects of their country’s culture they don’t like. Except they are also escaping insanely high cost of living, increasing violent crime and now almost yearly apocalyptic fires, power outages, dwindling tap water reserves and earthquakes. And unless you live in a very expensive part of town it’s hard to survive without…

> public transportation is good enough that you don’t really need a car.

For having access to good public transportation with regular frequency you need to live somewhere central in most of the big European cities. It might work out for you but locals are getting priced out because of these relatively rich Californian immigrants moving in and pricing out the locals. Now the locals need to move out to suburbs and use cars or not so frequent trains and buses.

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#86

Post by zmibes »

"Californians are making themselves known in a country once considered the forgotten sibling of Spain."

What does that even mean?

Anyway. Rich foreigners make capital city too expensive for some locals. Hardly news. Come, learn Portuguese, have fun and spend your money. Portugal is a sovereign(ish) nation. Let them accept immigration as they wish. This theatrical hand-wringing doesn't help anyone.

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#87

Post by joaomval »

dopidopHN wrote: post #77
dimmke wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portugal seriously sucks. The food is bad, and yeah you can see about all there is to see in both Lisboa and Porto in under a week. I was really turned off when I went there in November. I think it's a magnet for this stuff because it's cheaper than the rest of Europe and the government has openly marketed itself to this kind of thing (to the detriment of the citizens, who are being priced out of housing and a lot of…

Out of curiosity, what is good food ?

big mac

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#88

Post by maxlamb »

pjmlp wrote: post #76
jorl17 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of my friends are very much employed, pretty smart (they'd get a job pretty much anywhere, probably FAANG, too) and they are either out of the country or want to get out. In general, they want higher salaries (like you mentioned), but there also seems to be a clear disdain for most of the portuguese cultural heritage, to be honest. This might be an ecochamber (I'd put money on it being the case) but most people…

The .com crash made me leave, it was almost impossible to stay employed afterwards, unless one would like to be jumping jobs every couple of months (many of my friends went through this, others created their own companies). I left, now it is really hard to come back before retirement, due to the ways life drives us around. It really feels like an ecochamber, or a generation thing maybe, because even with my regular v…

What do you mean by “ I seldom meet people that think that way”? You seldom meet people in Portugal that think in what way?

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#89

Post by vmception »

grapeskin wrote: post #31
jorl17 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing that people within the country (I live in Portugal and am portuguese) mostly want to get out, and so many people seem to want to get in (to work outside). I genuinely don't 100% get it.

(Comparatively) Rich people unaffected by a country's local social and economic woes want to live there because it's cheap and they can live like kings. Locals want to get out because costs are rising and they're used like slaves. You'll find similar problems in SE Asian countries. People want to escape their oppressive governments and lift their family out of crushing poverty and unaffordable living. People from Nor…

I’ve thought a lot about that, and most “oppressive governments” only show their face if you are poor. Same for governments known as non-oppressive to be honest.

I was thinking about Monaco, small town, but the actions are a high surveillance state with rigid rules, a monarchy. There simply are no poor people, but if there were, it would be seem as an oppressive autocrat (they have a congress/parlaiment, just like other autocrats do these days). But there aren't poor people, and its more like a perpetual gala.

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#90

Post by motogpjimbo »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #58

I've always loved how migrants become expats when they're white. I had thought it was exclusively a preserve of the British in anywhere in Europe that's sunny, and people who moved to Singapore or Dubai for the money, but hey, welcome to the club, Californians into yoga!

You're right that two different terms are in use, but you're wrong (and unnecessarily provocative) to attribute it to race. There's a lack of symmetry between a wealthy Brit moving to Singapore or Dubai and an economic migrant from Pakistan, say, moving to the UK. That lack of symmetry justifies the different terminology.
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