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Expats are moving to Portugal

latimes.com

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Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#31

Post by grapeskin »

jorl17 wrote: post #10
nazavo wrote: post #6

Portugal has been extremely popular with the nomad community too. A good dozen of friends of mine have already moved there through NHR and lots more are in the works. There are also projects like rebase.co, which make things super easy to set up base in the country. It seems like it's getting to a point where Portugal so popular, it might steer people away from itself instead.

It's amazing that people within the country (I live in Portugal and am portuguese) mostly want to get out, and so many people seem to want to get in (to work outside). I genuinely don't 100% get it.

(Comparatively) Rich people unaffected by a country's local social and economic woes want to live there because it's cheap and they can live like kings. Locals want to get out because costs are rising and they're used like slaves.

You'll find similar problems in SE Asian countries. People want to escape their oppressive governments and lift their family out of crushing poverty and unaffordable living. People from North America and Europe see those countries as basically Disney World--just a world of beaches, forests, $1 meals and $100/month apartments, and they're more than happy to move in. Admittedly, I'm a person who also absolutely loved Vietnam (as a middle class white dude who has zero risk of ever running into political or social issues there and could afford anything I want easily), but I know countless Vietnamese people who have recently emigrated from there and hope they'll never have to return.

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#32

Post by et-al »

c_o_n_v_e_x wrote: post #7

Hong Kong expats fleeing HK to Singapore are currently gentrifying the SG real estate market. HK'r's are accustomed to paying far more money for much less space. Add this with the fact the incoming HK'r's are effectively "panic leasing" anything they can get their hands on by offering way over the ask. I have friends who've had their rents increase from +30% to +115% when renewals come up.

Please correct me, but I thought Singapore was already relatively expensive compared to the rest of Asia given its tax haven status.

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#33

Post by mdorazio »

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #29
fernly wrote: post #14

For those intrigued, Greece has a "Golden Visa" program with a mere €250,000 buy-in. Spain has one at €500,000, same as Portugal. I would think Spain, with its larger cities and a language that is more familiar to most Californians than Portuguese, would have greater appeal. Ireland offers an "investor" residency program with a €1M buy-in. Just as charming and scenic, although worse weather, plus they speak something…

Do you have to pay 250,000 for the Visa? Or just have that much in your bank account?

See here: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/eu-golden-visas/greece-gold...

It’s effectively a 250k investment requirement (property purchase of similar). So it’s not a net worth thing.

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#34

Post by tananaev »

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #29
fernly wrote: post #14

For those intrigued, Greece has a "Golden Visa" program with a mere €250,000 buy-in. Spain has one at €500,000, same as Portugal. I would think Spain, with its larger cities and a language that is more familiar to most Californians than Portuguese, would have greater appeal. Ireland offers an "investor" residency program with a €1M buy-in. Just as charming and scenic, although worse weather, plus they speak something…

Do you have to pay 250,000 for the Visa? Or just have that much in your bank account?

Usually you need to invest it, but not sure about this specific program. Rental property is a good investment if you want a relatively safe, easy and stable option.

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#35

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

jorl17 wrote: post #16
maxlamb wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reason is that the majority of people moving in to Portugal are nomads who already have high salaries, and the Portuguese trying to get out either have low salaries or are unemployed.

Most of my friends are very much employed, pretty smart (they'd get a job pretty much anywhere, probably FAANG, too) and they are either out of the country or want to get out. In general, they want higher salaries (like you mentioned), but there also seems to be a clear disdain for most of the portuguese cultural heritage, to be honest. This might be an ecochamber (I'd put money on it being the case) but most people…

> most people "around me" who are in "the tech world" are pretty much diametrically opposed to most portuguese customs and culture. They don't really identify with the country, the history, the religion, the folklore, the politics, the sports

If you don't identify as Portugese, then most likely all these things will register as pretty decorations for your otherwise cosmopolitan life. If you do identify as Portugese, these things can register as an anchor preventing you from developing and exploring the possibilities of life.

That was certainly how I felt about the UK when I left in (3 decades ago).

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#36

Post by rektide »

vmception wrote: post #23
rektide wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, which part of what you wrote was the opposite of what I wrote? The part where you said any group of people, and I said a very wealthy group of people.

I think there are at least 400,000 Californians (1%) that are wealthy enough and flexible enough to be in that global 0.03% cohort you mentioned

> that the world’s wealthiest 1% is not entirely made up of billionaires, but contains a significant number of people whose assets amount to $759,900 or over. Indeed, there are only 123,000 ultra high net worth individuals (defined as those whose assets exceed $50 million) worldwide. As a group, however, they lay claim to 45% of the world’s wealth. [1]

In this regard, although your estimate is wildly vastly over-optistic, I tend to agree with your premise. Yes, around 400k Californians probably do pose a vast & significant threat to global order & probably are one of the biggest most exploitative & dangerous forces on the planet.

This particular state is home to people vastly more compensated than anywhere else. And they will wreak havoc upon the lower priced markets they seek to exploit & live well amongst.

[1] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/10/who-are-the-1-the-ans...

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#37

Post by Natsu »

fernly wrote: post #14

For those intrigued, Greece has a "Golden Visa" program with a mere €250,000 buy-in. Spain has one at €500,000, same as Portugal. I would think Spain, with its larger cities and a language that is more familiar to most Californians than Portuguese, would have greater appeal. Ireland offers an "investor" residency program with a €1M buy-in. Just as charming and scenic, although worse weather, plus they speak something…

The US has a similar sort of visa for foreign investors, I think it's this one:

https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent...

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#38

Post by sometimeshuman »

I think people from coastal California, such as the couple featured in the article, take for granted the spontaneous joy when random friends and family pop into the city, because of a work trip for example, and try to meet up. And then proceed to have a deep meaningful conversation in your native language where you get each other's references, figures of speech, jokes, and are generally on the same wavelength.

It seems shortsighted to move to tiny coastal city in Europe that you can probably see in a weekend visit, where you rarely get to express yourself in your own language, spending years constantly frustrating and annoying people when speaking their language, having no cultural attachment, possibly destroying your career, and the sinking feeling that you may never see most of your friends and family again let alone that exciting spontaneous visit.

I thought it was because you could get a place on the beach at a considerably lower price than California but the city mentioned, Cascais, seems similarly priced. The lower crime rate is a compelling reason to move but still seems insufficient.

Re: Expats are moving to Portugal

#40

Post by dimmke »

sometimeshuman wrote: post #38

I think people from coastal California, such as the couple featured in the article, take for granted the spontaneous joy when random friends and family pop into the city, because of a work trip for example, and try to meet up. And then proceed to have a deep meaningful conversation in your native language where you get each other's references, figures of speech, jokes, and are generally on the same wavelength. It see…

Portugal seriously sucks. The food is bad, and yeah you can see about all there is to see in both Lisboa and Porto in under a week. I was really turned off when I went there in November.

I think it's a magnet for this stuff because it's cheaper than the rest of Europe and the government has openly marketed itself to this kind of thing (to the detriment of the citizens, who are being priced out of housing and a lot of whom are leaving for other countries.)

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