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Richard Stallman Removed from the GCC Steering Committee

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Re: Richard Stallman Removed from the GCC Steering Committee

#81

Post by tptacek »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #18

The followups are insightful. Eg. this one: https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2021-March/235183.html > Porting CLANG would have been easier (to some extent) BUT my choice was political and Stallman in the Steering Committee is a long term warranty that GCC development will not steer away from the Free Software conception that I know, betraying my trust.

When I read this thread a day ago, it consisted of SC and project contributors unanimously agreeing to remove Stallman, and 3-4 extremely angry outsiders calling the SC traitors.

Re: Richard Stallman Removed from the GCC Steering Committee

#82

Post by tptacek »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #21

Another interesting comment from the thread: > 4. Regarding morality. This letter (like many other sjw creatures) says many words about morality, diversity, but at the end of the day it boils down to removing Stallman from position. As a citizen of post-soviet country I can vividly see that this letter is enterely about politics and looks very similar to communist agenda which likes to hide authoritarian policies beh…

Note that this is a comment from someone who does not appear to have contributed to GCC.

Re: Richard Stallman Removed from the GCC Steering Committee

#83

Post by prepend »

lamp987 wrote: post #41
prepend wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s interesting to see this list get longer year by year. It’s good to have an ideal of welcoming, but curious to me what particular characteristics are “list worthy.” It reminds me when those people raise their hand in a talk and say “what about security” and aren’t happy until you add the word “security.” Comically, even if nothing in the content is changed. Just adding the word makes them happy and I foun…

it signals in-group membership to others. it doesnt actually mean anything. >hello, i too am one of "us" *wink wink*. lets mutually support each other in conflicts with people from the out-group.

I think it’s something like that. But will the list eventually have all groups?

Re: Richard Stallman Removed from the GCC Steering Committee

#84

Post by ldarby »

The first email in the thread [0] has 10 reasons why Stallman should be cancelled. They repeat Stallman's earlier opinions about pedophilia from before he changed his opinion on that, so they shouldn't be valid.

About point 5 about "defending sexual assault", I think it's important to note that it was "sexual assault" only because that is the statutory charge used in Texas for violating the age of consent law [1]. If the incident [2] had happened a few miles away in Oklahoma where the age of consent is 16, there would not be a "sexual assault" charge. I complete agree with Stallman's other point (made elsewhere) that more precise language needs be used to describe what actually happened.

I'm not defending Stallman about everything - the other points, which can be summed up as "he's a creep towards women and alienates them", are problematic, and if he won't change his behaviour that might be a valid reason to cancel him.

[0] https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2021-March/235091.html

[1] https://www.ageofconsent.net/states/texas

[2] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cody-wilso...

Re: Richard Stallman Removed from the GCC Steering Committee

#85

Post by xlwqnt »

abracadaniel wrote: post #52
disgruntled101 wrote: post #29

In order to be tolerant we must remove everyone that does not agree

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Written in 1945, literally as a reaction to actual Nazism.

Now used as a cudgel to intimidate and harass everyone who does not follow the party line.

Often the harassers profit financially from their bigotry, which makes them gigantic hypocrites.

Re: Richard Stallman Removed from the GCC Steering Committee

#86

Post by xlwqnt »

So, at least one pro-canceler has a cushy Facebook job and opens a tribunal against Stallman on flimsy evidence.

There is no evidence at all that Stallman actually hurt a person.

On the other hand Facebook hurts millions of teenagers every day by deliberately nurturing addictive behavior.

Should we examine Zuckerberg on the gcc mailing list in the same manner?

Re: Richard Stallman Removed from the GCC Steering Committee

#87

Post by xlwqnt »

tptacek wrote: post #81
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #18

The followups are insightful. Eg. this one: https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2021-March/235183.html > Porting CLANG would have been easier (to some extent) BUT my choice was political and Stallman in the Steering Committee is a long term warranty that GCC development will not steer away from the Free Software conception that I know, betraying my trust.

When I read this thread a day ago, it consisted of SC and project contributors unanimously agreeing to remove Stallman, and 3-4 extremely angry outsiders calling the SC traitors.

Unanimous? As always in 2021, only one side can speak up publicly.

The SC itself only removed Stallman from the web page, stating that he was really not a member anyway.

The message was pretty diplomatic and crafted to appease the fanatics while not actually doing much.

Re: Richard Stallman Removed from the GCC Steering Committee

#88

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

foobiter wrote: post #43
disgruntled101 wrote: post #29

In order to be tolerant we must remove everyone that does not agree

tolerance generally excludes the intolerant, yes

The Paradox of Tolerance is mentioned every time when an intolerant hypocrite wants to paint himself as a tolerant person.

Re: Richard Stallman Removed from the GCC Steering Committee

#89

Post by gkagel »

abracadaniel wrote: post #52
disgruntled101 wrote: post #29

In order to be tolerant we must remove everyone that does not agree

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Popper would not have approved anything that happened in that cancel discussion.

Popper knew things like forgiveness, not taking single statements out of context, not reading too much into statements, not misquoting people and much more.

Please do not associate Popper with mob justice. He would have despised the mob.

Re: Richard Stallman Removed from the GCC Steering Committee

#90

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

pixl97 wrote: post #74
mopsi wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The stated reason for removing Stallman is the belief that he is "toxic". A very similar pursuit of ideological purity (in name only; it was a power game) was a characteristic of daily life in the Soviet Union. Even until the very end, things like the fact that your grandfather used to own more than 10 cows before the revolution (a wealthy oppressor!) or that your family celebrates Christmas (unloyal to the party!)…

You mean the free world that made blacklists based upon peoples sexuality or potential membership of the communist party. We didn't reinvent anything, it's been here the whole time.

Current cancel culture activism is indistinguishable from 1950s McCarthyism which they like to condemn. It would seem that they have no sense of decency.
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