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NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

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Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#81

Post by chadcmulligan »

Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy:

Earth - a small planet in the outer reaches of spiral galaxy M7529, so far the only planet on record that the semi-intelligent biped inhabitants managed to overheat so badly that they became extinct. Overheating has happened before, of course, however the method of overheating is unique - the inhabitants invented a method of identifying uniqueness by making large calculations and attaching small drawings to the calculations, they then proceeded to trade these tokens as something of value, using more and more energy and creating a runaway green house effect. This has been used as an example to disprove the existence of god.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#82

Post by setr »

analog31 wrote: post #55
thinkingkong wrote: post #38

Maybe NFTs for collectibles isnt ideal but Im wondering if there are some more - lets say - utilitarian uses of this concept that we havent discussed yet. The other day I tried buying a bike. Id really like to know it wasnt stolen, and somehow being able to tie a real world representation into a virtual single item good would be somewhat useful.

I actually had a similar idea, last time the theft of a famous painting was reported in the news. The museum could offer a deal, where they get the painting back but give the thieves a certificate for it. As part of the deal, they have to hang a sign next to the painting, saying, "This painting is considered to be stolen." The thieves can do whatever they want with the certificate -- use it to pay illicit debts and s…

You could do the same thing today, offering a certificate of authenticity or whatever, validated by the relevant comunnaly accepted authority, and it would be be just as baffling and nonsensical an offer. The certificate is not the weilder of value , even if it were required for the object itself to be valuable (eg originality).

With an NFT I don’t even know what you’re certifying, except that this one chain says you own the object. In your example that’s not even true, the museum “owns” it, yet the thieves have it, and the NFT is now just as flawed as today’s understanding of ownership.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#83

Post by detaro »

Lazare wrote: post #31
Osmose wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What property of NFTs has suddenly made them make money where previously they weren't? Like how did adding NFTs to the mix suddenly make their art start selling?

The problem I think, is that their art still isn't selling. NFTs aren't art, they are effectively trading cards referencing art. These trading cards are, somewhat mysteriously, selling, and that does get money into the hands of artists which is good, but they're not doing it by encouraging people to buy art or tip artists, and it's hard to see how "everyone can just print trading cards referencing things" is a sustai…

I don't have the impression people buying NFT art consider there to be much difference between the art and what you call a "trading card" referencing art. (sure, many probably buy for speculation, but that happens with meatspace art too)

Thought experiment: if they sold a digital art piece in traditional terms, would you consider the printed licensing contract (which is our usual legal tool represent selling a file) to be a "trading card" and the art itself to be not sold? (the legal meaning of an NFT is less defined, true, but I suspect people will tie licensing contracts into that soon enough)

Especially in art, a lot of this comes ultimately down to social convention of what people do consider to have value, and as long as enough people agree it doesn't really matter what the rest of us thinks. (I think I get how the logic works for NFTs, but it doesn't work for me in the sense that I currently don't consider owning an NFT to be meaningful to me, unlike owning other kinds of (representations of) art)

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#84

Post by gfodor »

OK, so what happens if, say, the worlds energy demands jump 100x in 2-3 years due to out-of-control feedback loops like crypto?

Energy prices go up. People suffer. There are two possible responses:

- Regulation/laws to stop the feedback loop

- Investment + deployment of new energy technologies to increase supply

Will be interesting to see which of the two scenarios above happen, or if the fears of this crypto wave leading to insane energy cost increases just don't happen.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#85

Post by purple_ferret »

friedman23 wrote: post #52
purple_ferret wrote: post #30

NFTs, the new way to spin a copyright or incorporate into DRMs, but since it pumps and is bullish for crypto, all cool kids are lovin it.

This is a complete misunderstanding of what an NFT does. The content isn't protected by the NFT, ownership is.

I know what an NFT does. It doesn't even give you ownership on anything other than a blockchain print. To me, the logical conclusion of this is copyright protection, where, say, an eventual platform only plays content where the player can only be verified as the owner.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#86

Post by anonymoushn »

chadcmulligan wrote: post #81

Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy: Earth - a small planet in the outer reaches of spiral galaxy M7529, so far the only planet on record that the semi-intelligent biped inhabitants managed to overheat so badly that they became extinct. Overheating has happened before, of course, however the method of overheating is unique - the inhabitants invented a method of identifying uniqueness by making large calculations and atta…

I'm hoping we can do our NFT trading on non-PoW chains within the next couple years. This should reduce the environmental impact to that of baseball cards.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#87

Post by elevaet »

"It’s an ongoing waste that creates little in ongoing value and gets less efficient and more expensive as time goes on. For most technological innovations the opposite is true."

Reminds me of another cryptographic novelty that's come back into vogue lately.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#88

Post by detaro »

anonymoushn wrote: post #86
chadcmulligan wrote: post #81

Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy: Earth - a small planet in the outer reaches of spiral galaxy M7529, so far the only planet on record that the semi-intelligent biped inhabitants managed to overheat so badly that they became extinct. Overheating has happened before, of course, however the method of overheating is unique - the inhabitants invented a method of identifying uniqueness by making large calculations and atta…

I'm hoping we can do our NFT trading on non-PoW chains within the next couple years. This should reduce the environmental impact to that of baseball cards.

I've seen a bunch of artists jump on https://www.hicetnunc.xyz (which uses Tezos, which apparently is a Proof-of-Stake chain?) after the "wait, ETH uses how much energy?!" shock.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#89

Post by atweiden »

anonporridge wrote: post #44
chickenfries wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The possibilities of NFTs fascinate me, especially for portable, digital identities and assets that transcend any specific virtual realm and can't be arbitrarily erased by any central authority. I'm struggling to understand the possibilities. Can you enlighten me? It seems like people buying these things are just speculating. Can you paint a picture of what kind of possibilities you're excited about?

This thread touches on it, https://twitter.com/FEhrsam/status/1366248629661552642 A very simple example is that it could partially solve the problem of verifying digital identities. If I follow/friend your NFT based identity, and various virtual realms (games, social media, virtual spaces) integrate with that 'identity' NFT for user accounts, then any new virtual realm I enter, I can immediately find and connect with…

> A very simple example is that it could partially solve the problem of verifying digital identities. If I follow/friend your NFT based identity, and various virtual realms (games, social media, virtual spaces) integrate with that 'identity' NFT for user accounts

You don't need Crypto Kitties for account verification. All you need is a cryptographic keypair, like the kind you already get by default in any Bitcoin wallet. Just sign a message proving you own a public key with the corresponding private key.

> Maybe I'm starry eyed and delusional, and I'm sure it's a LONG, messy road to get wherever we're going with this.

Evidently we’re going back in time to 2015, when “NFT” meant a blockchain representation of a digital trading card game. No one cared then, and no one cares now. The only thing new to the 2021 “NFT” narrative cycle is Twitter trying to monetize itself by selling tweets. Needless to say, none of the historical attempts at NFTs have ever resulted in lasting value to society, and probably this won’t either.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#90

Post by Hammershaft »

ajiang wrote: post #23

Regardless of what you think of NFTs, you have to recognize that the author's only counterargument against NFTs is that they're bad for the "rest of us" due to externalities that everyone else has to pay. The "rest of us" don't pay for the electricity use. The ETH miners are paying for it directly. And creators and buyers are paying for it indirectly through ETH usage. It isn't an externality. That's like saying the…

Until the price of carbon is accounted for in the price of electricity, using ridiculous amounts of electricity for such trivial uses is externalizing the costs of these transactions onto all of us.

We are facing a climate crisis that is projected to accelerate a mass extinction crisis and create tens of millions of displaced refugees and yet we are spending 200 KgCO2 of wasted compute on a 'digital ownership token' on this: http://cryptoart.wtf/#https://superrare.co/artwork-v2/the-fo...

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