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NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

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Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#21

Post by jes5199 »

chickenfries wrote: post #15
anonporridge wrote: post #8

The possibilities of NFTs fascinate me, especially for portable, digital identities and assets that transcend any specific virtual realm and can't be arbitrarily erased by any central authority. But I also won't put a single sat in any of them right now.

> The possibilities of NFTs fascinate me, especially for portable, digital identities and assets that transcend any specific virtual realm and can't be arbitrarily erased by any central authority. I'm struggling to understand the possibilities. Can you enlighten me? It seems like people buying these things are just speculating. Can you paint a picture of what kind of possibilities you're excited about?

“digital identities and assets that transcend any specific virtual realm”

I think they mean, you could have the same stuff in different video games

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#22

Post by Osmose »

nerbert wrote: post #11
ashkankiani wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the point of this comment. It's almost schizophrenic in nature. Are you advocating for wasting energy by saying that wasting energy is fine because it's done in other places but not criticized?

It’s probably more like if we had a common point of comparison for all the energy spending points in our society we wouldn’t be focusing on blockchain that much.

Pointing out the environmental impact of NFTs is not taking away a meaningful amount of attention or effort from pointing out the impact of nonrenewable power, cars, etc. What it can do is clue in NFT users who may not understand the impact of their participation.

Anecdotally I've seen several artists on social media making posts recently saying "wow okay I just heard about the power use of NFTs, this is nuts" because it's really not obvious if you're not already familiar with blockchain-related stuff.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#23

Post by ajiang »

Regardless of what you think of NFTs, you have to recognize that the author's only counterargument against NFTs is that they're bad for the "rest of us" due to externalities that everyone else has to pay.

The "rest of us" don't pay for the electricity use. The ETH miners are paying for it directly. And creators and buyers are paying for it indirectly through ETH usage. It isn't an externality. That's like saying the physical art world shouldn't exist because it uses physical real estate, electricity, and raw materials to be made on -- and the rest of us pay for those things.

Is it a good use of electricity? Maybe, maybe not. That's for people to decide individually, unless we'd want to go down the moral rabbit hole of judging every single use of electricity.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#24

Post by dimgl »

Osmose wrote: post #10
snissn wrote: post #5

It’s easy for a famous entrenched artist who mass produces their work thanks to legacy infrastructure to talk down on this but I’m seeing lots of independent creator artist friends making some money for their work

What property of NFTs has suddenly made them make money where previously they weren't? Like how did adding NFTs to the mix suddenly make their art start selling?

This is exactly what I don't understand. If it's the same art, why does it matter if the art is in an NFT or in a physical representation? Like, why are people buying pieces of art using NFTs?

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#25

Post by bagels »

ajiang wrote: post #23

Regardless of what you think of NFTs, you have to recognize that the author's only counterargument against NFTs is that they're bad for the "rest of us" due to externalities that everyone else has to pay. The "rest of us" don't pay for the electricity use. The ETH miners are paying for it directly. And creators and buyers are paying for it indirectly through ETH usage. It isn't an externality. That's like saying the…

The externality of the electricity use is the pollution, and increased prices due to demand.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#26

Post by seibelj »

> They use an astonishing amount of electricity to create and trade. Together, they are already using more than is consumed by some states in the US. Imagine building a giant new power plant just to make Christie’s or the Basel Art Fair function. And the amount of power wasted will go up commensurate with their popularity and value. And keep going up. The details are here. The short version is that for the foreseeable future, the method that’s used to verify the blockchain and to create new digital coins is deliberately energy-intensive and inefficient. That’s on purpose. And as they get more valuable, the energy used will go up, not down.

Binance Smart Chain has many NFTs and doesn't use Proof of Work. Ethereum is migrating to Proof of Stake soon and will eliminate the power waste argument. If he wanted to attack NFTs he should have used a better argument.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#27

Post by chaostheory »

ajiang wrote: post #23

Regardless of what you think of NFTs, you have to recognize that the author's only counterargument against NFTs is that they're bad for the "rest of us" due to externalities that everyone else has to pay. The "rest of us" don't pay for the electricity use. The ETH miners are paying for it directly. And creators and buyers are paying for it indirectly through ETH usage. It isn't an externality. That's like saying the…

Isn’t his argument moot due to ethereum’s eventual transition to proof of stake

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#28

Post by seibelj »

Osmose wrote: post #10
snissn wrote: post #5

It’s easy for a famous entrenched artist who mass produces their work thanks to legacy infrastructure to talk down on this but I’m seeing lots of independent creator artist friends making some money for their work

What property of NFTs has suddenly made them make money where previously they weren't? Like how did adding NFTs to the mix suddenly make their art start selling?

One amazing use-case is recurring revenue on secondary market sales by coding royalties into the smart contracts. Artists used to die poor and their family saw nothing as their work skyrocketed in value. Not anymore with NFTs.

Re: NFTs Are a Dangerous Trap

#29

Post by ajiang »

bagels wrote: post #25
ajiang wrote: post #23

Regardless of what you think of NFTs, you have to recognize that the author's only counterargument against NFTs is that they're bad for the "rest of us" due to externalities that everyone else has to pay. The "rest of us" don't pay for the electricity use. The ETH miners are paying for it directly. And creators and buyers are paying for it indirectly through ETH usage. It isn't an externality. That's like saying the…

The externality of the electricity use is the pollution, and increased prices due to demand.

That's an argument for a different question, which is "should we allow people to waste electricity if they pay for it?". If your answer is that we should regulate what people are allowed to use electricity for, then we'll need to change the laws in this country.

It is very difficult to start being the moral judge for every single use of electricity. Instead, we let the free market decide in most situations. And when there are true externalities (meaning costs that borne by the broader population, e.g. car emissions) we do impose regulations to reduce those externalities.

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