Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 107 posts

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#81

Post by ascorbic »

rozab wrote: post #16
theptip wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. If you've visited Scotland's countryside, you might have noticed the sweeping vistas of grassy green fields, yellow bushy marshes, and purple heather -- and a conspicuous absence of any trees. It's a very unnatural landscape, historically speaking. Scotland (along with the rest of the UK) cut down most of their old growth forests in the industrial revolution,…

The Caledonian Forest disappeared long before the Industrial Revolution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Forest >An examination of the earliest maps of Scotland suggests that the extent of the Caledonian Forest remnants has changed little since 1600.

As with most of the forest in the UK, it was cut down for timber and then did not regrow because of deer. This has been happening for thousands of years.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#82

Post by KMag »

peanut_merchant wrote: post #69
jessaustin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crossbows are easy to use and don't alarm neighbors. Venison is delicious and nutritious. Butchering a deer is a fun and educational project for the whole family, and requires very little equipment: knives and a big table, plus a tree limb and some rope for the initial skinning. This is yet another problem that people could solve for themselves, if enough of them cared to do so.

Most land in Scotland is owned by large estate owners (think castles and thousands of acres). We have extremely strict gun control and hunting is usually limited to employees of the estates or visitors who have paid a hefty fee to hunt on the estate. Hunting here is much more controlled and limited than it is in North America or elsewhere. Source: Highlands born and raised, live in Canada.

I suppose that without much in the way of forests, bow hunting deer also isn't much of a thing in the highlands.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#83

Post by perbu »

vidarh wrote: post #12

It's worth noting, with respect to the advice from Norwegian farmers, that Norwegian farmers have an incentive to push for high estimates of predation over other causes of loss, as they get compensation for loss due to predators. That's not to say they don't lose animals to predators, but the estimates of the actual numbers have been fought over in Norway for decades.

It is also worth noting that far more sheep die of sickness/exposure than the few that are taken by predators.

IIRC 100k sheep are lost and 20k of those are to predators.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#84

Post by KMag »

rmah wrote: post #61
DonaldFisk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were native. About 500 years ago. Ecosystems change. Bears and wolves were also native to Scotland once but we'd think twice about reintroducing them .

Why think twice? There are many many large predators in the US and we get along fine. The US outside of Alaska has thousands of wolves, 10's of thousands of mountain lions, 100's of thousands of bears, millions of crocodiles, millions of coyotes, etc... no major problems. And they're not just in the sparsely inhabited west, densely populated north-east states like NY, PA, NJ, MA, CT ,etc. have thousands of bears and…

My dad's back yard has a view of Lake Superior. A couple of times he has seen a black bear wander through his back yard, and he occasionally sees a wolf stalking some deer in his back yard.

He doesn't have a dog, but some of his neighbors sometimes have their dogs cower up to their owners during walks because they smell wolves. Supposedly some people have seen wolves stalking their dogs, but I haven't heard of dogs being killed by wolves in the area.

It's mostly safe for adults, but I wouldn't let a kid run around alone in my dad's yard, mostly for fear of the rapidly flowing small river, but also due to wolves and bears.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#85

Post by toomanybeersies »

jessaustin wrote: post #24
mNovak wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deer seem to be a problem everywhere. In the US midwest they're all over the place.

Crossbows are easy to use and don't alarm neighbors. Venison is delicious and nutritious. Butchering a deer is a fun and educational project for the whole family, and requires very little equipment: knives and a big table, plus a tree limb and some rope for the initial skinning. This is yet another problem that people could solve for themselves, if enough of them cared to do so.

I'm not sure how much experience you have with hunting, but deer stalking is hard, even more so with a crossbow instead of a rifle.

Not to mention the investment in time and money involved with hunting.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#86

Post by toomanybeersies »

mrec wrote: post #25
pinipedman wrote: post #20

They should re-introduce moose, wolves, and brown bears as well. But lynx would make a great start.

They're already working on bison: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25846480 ETA: and we apparently have some moose and wild boar now, on a small scale: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/apr/15/wildlife...

Beavers too: https://www.rspb.org.uk/our-work/our-positions-and-casework/...

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#87

Post by kimi »

mabbo wrote: post #29
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #7

Lynx are extremely photogenic, but I can't help wondering - why? They're not endangered, they are aggressive predators, and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. The fact that they were common half a millennium ago when the ecosystem was very different doesn't seem particularly relevant. So if this is just for tourism and/or as a vanity project and there are no solid ecological or scientific reasons, I'…

> they are aggressive predators, Got a source on that? Having grown up in a rural area where lynx are native... I've seen one, one time, in my entire life (in the wild). They are invisible. They stay away from people. "Aggressive" is the wrong word.

Definitely. They are rather scary - not a big cat, but a small lion that jumps like crazy - but totally invisible. Only chances of "meeting" one is ending up in a cave where a female keeps her cubs.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#88

Post by Bayart »

eloff wrote: post #36
jessaustin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crossbows are easy to use and don't alarm neighbors. Venison is delicious and nutritious. Butchering a deer is a fun and educational project for the whole family, and requires very little equipment: knives and a big table, plus a tree limb and some rope for the initial skinning. This is yet another problem that people could solve for themselves, if enough of them cared to do so.

> Butchering a deer is a fun and educational project for the whole family I would find it gross and traumatic to the point where I might lose my lunch. I eat meat, but if I had to butcher my own meat I'd go vegetarian. I like your solution though, I'm surprised that the market doesn't just solve the problem to the point where we're worried about there being too few deer - is hunting limited or is there not enough dem…

>I would find it gross and traumatic to the point where I might lose my lunch

That's just because you're not used to it. My grand-mother used to kill and butcher chickens, guinea hens and rabbits in front of me as a kid and I've been to quite a few post-hunting parties. It just doesn't move anymore.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#89

Post by jeromenerf »

almog wrote: post #28
ggm wrote: post #2

Huge opposition likely from farmers. Cool, but uphill struggle I'd say. Within a boundary? Sure.

The same debate is going over in the Pyrenees regarding reintroduction of bears. Farmers fear for their sheep (seem to be especially the case on the French side from what I've gathered) but guard dogs seem to reduce their losses tremendously. My main source of information is Steve Cracknell who's a writes about rewilding of the Pyrenees as well as hiking. I encountered his blog and twitter as part of my preparation f…

The "patou" in the Pyrénées are big 50+ kg white fluff balls and they sometimes take their job a bit too seriously. They most probably won’t attack hikers but they may occasionally encourage them to go for a good sprint far around the herd.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#90

Post by nix23 »

vidarh wrote: post #12

It's worth noting, with respect to the advice from Norwegian farmers, that Norwegian farmers have an incentive to push for high estimates of predation over other causes of loss, as they get compensation for loss due to predators. That's not to say they don't lose animals to predators, but the estimates of the actual numbers have been fought over in Norway for decades.

It's really not a big problem, Switzerland is much smaller and we have 140-180 lynx, around 80 Wolves and some Brown bears. Yes they are some losses, but with herd dogs not allot.
Post reply on HN