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Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

theguardian.com

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Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#11

Post by justin66 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #7

Lynx are extremely photogenic, but I can't help wondering - why? They're not endangered, they are aggressive predators, and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. The fact that they were common half a millennium ago when the ecosystem was very different doesn't seem particularly relevant. So if this is just for tourism and/or as a vanity project and there are no solid ecological or scientific reasons, I'…

> They're not endangered, they are aggressive predators, and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them.

Are you certain on that last point?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/feb/20/deer-cull-dilem...

I don't know that much about the lynx but it seems like it might be a useful ideal predator to release to help deal with deer overpopulation. They don't prey on people.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#12

Post by vidarh »

It's worth noting, with respect to the advice from Norwegian farmers, that Norwegian farmers have an incentive to push for high estimates of predation over other causes of loss, as they get compensation for loss due to predators.

That's not to say they don't lose animals to predators, but the estimates of the actual numbers have been fought over in Norway for decades.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#13

Post by theptip »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #7

Lynx are extremely photogenic, but I can't help wondering - why? They're not endangered, they are aggressive predators, and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. The fact that they were common half a millennium ago when the ecosystem was very different doesn't seem particularly relevant. So if this is just for tourism and/or as a vanity project and there are no solid ecological or scientific reasons, I'…

> and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them.

If you've visited Scotland's countryside, you might have noticed the sweeping vistas of grassy green fields, yellow bushy marshes, and purple heather -- and a conspicuous absence of any trees. It's a very unnatural landscape, historically speaking.

Scotland (along with the rest of the UK) cut down most of their old growth forests in the industrial revolution, and also eliminated all of the large predators. As a result, the wild deer population is out of control, and even with management (read: stalking wild deer) there are so many deer that it's impossible to simply plant trees and have them reforest; deer will eat and destroy the saplings before they can mature.

This arrests the natural reforestation that would occur over time, and makes even managed projects expensive -- for example here's a charity that is working on reforesting a plot of land in Scotland: https://bordersforesttrust.org/places/wild-heart/carrifran-w.... They had to hire someone to kill deer on their land to protect the new trees, even after expensive plastic casings.

That's a long-winded bit of context, but the summarized argument for re-introducing large predators is that they would help to control the damaging and out-of-balance wild deer population, reducing the amount of human intervention required, and allowing the countryside to revert back to its natural forested state.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#14

Post by smnrchrds »

hashtagjohnt wrote: post #10
Pet_Ant wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's a vital step to restoring the ecosystem back to closer to what it was half a millennium ago?

But what is the value in restoring that ecosystem? I am not saying that is a bad thing (it is probably a good thing), I am just curious what the argument for restoration is here.

There has been many articles written about the success of reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone National Park. I am curious to know what the rationale for lynx in Scotland is, but I imagine the expected outcomes are in line with those observed in Yellowstone.

> Wolves are causing a trophic cascade of ecological change, including helping to increase beaver populations and bring back aspen, and vegetation.

https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wolf-reintroduc...

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#15

Post by sandworm101 »

theptip wrote: post #13
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #7

Lynx are extremely photogenic, but I can't help wondering - why? They're not endangered, they are aggressive predators, and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. The fact that they were common half a millennium ago when the ecosystem was very different doesn't seem particularly relevant. So if this is just for tourism and/or as a vanity project and there are no solid ecological or scientific reasons, I'…

> and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. If you've visited Scotland's countryside, you might have noticed the sweeping vistas of grassy green fields, yellow bushy marshes, and purple heather -- and a conspicuous absence of any trees. It's a very unnatural landscape, historically speaking. Scotland (along with the rest of the UK) cut down most of their old growth forests in the industrial revolution,…

Deer, and rabbits. Lynx are designed to eat rabbits.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#16

Post by rozab »

theptip wrote: post #13
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #7

Lynx are extremely photogenic, but I can't help wondering - why? They're not endangered, they are aggressive predators, and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. The fact that they were common half a millennium ago when the ecosystem was very different doesn't seem particularly relevant. So if this is just for tourism and/or as a vanity project and there are no solid ecological or scientific reasons, I'…

> and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. If you've visited Scotland's countryside, you might have noticed the sweeping vistas of grassy green fields, yellow bushy marshes, and purple heather -- and a conspicuous absence of any trees. It's a very unnatural landscape, historically speaking. Scotland (along with the rest of the UK) cut down most of their old growth forests in the industrial revolution,…

The Caledonian Forest disappeared long before the Industrial Revolution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Forest

>An examination of the earliest maps of Scotland suggests that the extent of the Caledonian Forest remnants has changed little since 1600.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#18

Post by mNovak »

theptip wrote: post #13
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #7

Lynx are extremely photogenic, but I can't help wondering - why? They're not endangered, they are aggressive predators, and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. The fact that they were common half a millennium ago when the ecosystem was very different doesn't seem particularly relevant. So if this is just for tourism and/or as a vanity project and there are no solid ecological or scientific reasons, I'…

> and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. If you've visited Scotland's countryside, you might have noticed the sweeping vistas of grassy green fields, yellow bushy marshes, and purple heather -- and a conspicuous absence of any trees. It's a very unnatural landscape, historically speaking. Scotland (along with the rest of the UK) cut down most of their old growth forests in the industrial revolution,…

Deer seem to be a problem everywhere. In the US midwest they're all over the place.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#19

Post by HarryHirsch »

rozab wrote: post #16
theptip wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. If you've visited Scotland's countryside, you might have noticed the sweeping vistas of grassy green fields, yellow bushy marshes, and purple heather -- and a conspicuous absence of any trees. It's a very unnatural landscape, historically speaking. Scotland (along with the rest of the UK) cut down most of their old growth forests in the industrial revolution,…

The Caledonian Forest disappeared long before the Industrial Revolution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Forest >An examination of the earliest maps of Scotland suggests that the extent of the Caledonian Forest remnants has changed little since 1600.

No surprise there, the bear became extinct in the British Isles by the 10th century.
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