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I refuse to tolerate assholes

jacobian.org

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Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#81

Post by AndyKelley »

astrodust wrote: post #78
Jd wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people who are perceived as "acerbic" are simply direct and don't engage in the poo-pooing that characterizes many human social interactions. To get rid of them is to revert to a less intelligent form of life.

There's a difference between people who simply have poor social skills, where they'll say things like "You're obviously an idiot because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard" and those who are assholes who say things like "All are stupid, just like you". It's all degrees of asshole-ism, perhaps.

Calling someone stupid is another form of social poo-poo. There's no utility to it. Calling someone's action or behavior stupid, on the other hand, is direct and constructive. You are demanding that someone do something specifically different in order to improve. Calling the person an idiot is not constructive - it is only an insult. On the other hand, if the person said, "You're obviously an idiot because you consistently say stupid things, and you're dragging this project down, therefore I want you off the team," that may be hurtful, but it is constructive. It's a demand for change for the better.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#82

Post by magamiako »

Zev wrote: post #45
Jd wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people who are perceived as "acerbic" are simply direct and don't engage in the poo-pooing that characterizes many human social interactions. To get rid of them is to revert to a less intelligent form of life.

No one's time is worth so much that they can't take an extra five seconds and think about how to say something to avoid looking like a jackass.

If you can't deal with criticism, GTFO.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#83

Post by magamiako »

keithwinstein wrote: post #11

This article really strikes a chord. In several nerd organizations at MIT, there are longstanding "assholes" who are brilliant people and whose contributions are very valuable and educational to other members, but who typically write acerbic and harsh messages. (Almost always their criticism is directed at other longtime members, not directly at new members, but even new members see these messages or interactions in…

I vote you up for pointing the obvious. It's not necessarily that this person is an "asshole", it's that they are heavily results-driven.

What does being nice have to do with getting a project out? I mean, I doubt the guy is running around cussing everyone out--it's that he doesn't want to take the time to "care" about you. And why should he? Why should that person even give a damn about your feelings? Last time I checked they aren't social workers--they're programmers.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#84

Post by petercooper »

It's important to realize, however, that some people can be major assholes to you but charming to others. This disconnect can be pretty annoying but is something you have to get over because if you attack the "asshole" back and your friends like the asshole, you're going to look stupid.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#85

Post by rbonvall »

MostAwesomeDude wrote: post #19

I can't comment directly on his blog. What kind of asshole doesn't let people comment on his blog? :3 (Sarcasm, by the way; I don't have comments on my blog either.) More pragmatically, the tolerance of assholes is a requisite for using a computer, if you know anything about who maintains your operating system. Linux, glibc, binutils, gcc, X; these are the underpinnings of your system, and they are all maintained by…

I don't have to deal with any asshole when I use gcc or whatever.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#86

Post by bh42222 »

jonnathanson wrote: post #32
rauljara wrote: post #10

Preface: Something I've noticed about jerks/assholes: they're convinced that they're surrounded by jerks and/or assholes. Almost none of them are jerks for no reason. They're almost always jerks in response to some slight (either imagined, or blown way out of proportion). A good sign that you might be a jerk is that you see jerks all around you. Most people are basically all right. If you (1) run into conflicts with…

They're almost always jerks in response to some slight (either imagined, or blown way out of proportion). Either that, or they're just clinically certifiable narcissists. True narcissists are world-class pains in the ass like nothing else on the many spectra of personality disorders.

The true narcissists I have had the misfortune of knowing have been extremely charming. If they hadn't been, their "handicap" would have crippled their social lives. True narcissism and well above average ability to charm people, go hand in hand.

The same can be said about all sociopaths, they are all a very charming bunch.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#87

Post by pavel_lishin »

jacobian wrote: post #63
pavel_lishin wrote: post #14

> These people behave in a way that would not be tolerated in real life. I’ve worked with a few of these jerks in real life, and when they’ve been unable to restrain their behavior I’ve asked for them to be fired, and I’ve quit. Just because you couldn't tolerate them doesn't mean they aren't tolerated. When you asked for them to be fired (instead of asking the manager to talk to them about their behavior), were they…

I was thinking of two specific instances (luckily this sort of crap is rare and it's only happened to me those two times). In the first instance, the person in question was my direct boss and was responsible for reviewing my code. He'd routinely call me an idiot, a retard, etc., and during meetings he'd often say things like "no, we can't give that to Jacob - he'll just fuck it up." Now, in his defense I was a pretty…

Okay, wow, your samples are far and above what I expected - I thought you'd merely put up with Torvalds-style directness, or perhaps simply had a couple of Russian coworkers. I didn't think that people in the real world actually called their coworkers retards, or threw chairs through windows.

I now think you were perfectly justified in asking for those people to be fired and quitting - I'd have probably tacked on a discreet phone call to the police, and maybe scraped together enough cash to get a lawyer to threaten a lawsuit.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#88

Post by pavel_lishin »

mtoddh wrote: post #65
jacobian wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking of two specific instances (luckily this sort of crap is rare and it's only happened to me those two times). In the first instance, the person in question was my direct boss and was responsible for reviewing my code. He'd routinely call me an idiot, a retard, etc., and during meetings he'd often say things like "no, we can't give that to Jacob - he'll just fuck it up." Now, in his defense I was a pretty…

Awesome. Please tell us the names of these companies where managers refer to their employees as "retards", coworkers show up drunk, and it takes direct confrontation to get any of it resolved. Because I doubt anyone here wants to end up working at these places either. Kudos to you for standing up for yourself.

It's my sincere hope that those companies have long since failed.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#89

Post by jonnathanson »

bh42222 wrote: post #86
jonnathanson wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're almost always jerks in response to some slight (either imagined, or blown way out of proportion). Either that, or they're just clinically certifiable narcissists. True narcissists are world-class pains in the ass like nothing else on the many spectra of personality disorders.

The true narcissists I have had the misfortune of knowing have been extremely charming. If they hadn't been, their "handicap" would have crippled their social lives. True narcissism and well above average ability to charm people, go hand in hand. The same can be said about all sociopaths, they are all a very charming bunch.

Outwardly charming, on a surface level? Yes. Impossible to work with, or worse, for? Absolutely. They have close to zero conception or awareness of other human beings, making them poor communicators, irrational decisionmakers with regards to anything other than their personal interests, and something approximating pathological liars.

Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes

#90

Post by RustyRussell »

The inflammatory title of my post did bleed through the content a bit, didn't it? I just loved the quote. Mea culpa.

At some point, indeed, behaviour becomes so bad that you have a moral duty to stand up to it, even if it means burning your bridges on that project. Your examples in these comments fit the bill.

But discovering that someone on the project is not a nice person, and someone you wouldn't want to hang out with? Even though they're a Coding Deity? I don't know if I'd work on any large FOSS projects if I drew the line there.

Maybe your experience has been more pleasant, or your classification of assholes more sophisticated than mine :)

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