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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#81

Post by malandrew »

rayiner wrote: post #51
yingw787 wrote: post #7

I wonder if it's bigger than Sealand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand When I look at the list of demands I'm pretty quick to dismiss it. Then I remember how I dismissed the 1999 WTO protests in Seattle too, and how many of the fears those protesters had were realized over the next two decades. I might be too hopeful, but I really think the city leadership should talk to them and hear them out, i…

The list of demands is extremely tame for a fricking anarchist commune. Look at the list of "economic demands." The biggest ask is de-gentrification and rent control.

Those asks seem pretty incompatible with property law and the legislative process. You can't just unilaterally demand something like rent control and de-gentrification measures. The city government shouldn't even have (and probably doesn't have) the power to meet such demands.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#82

Post by refurb »

dev1n wrote: post #34
ciarannolan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the OP of that post: >tl;dw: Man was tagging over someone else's art, Raz and group approach and separate him from crowd, chasing him for two blocks. He begins to film them with his phone, they take it from him. He tries to get it back and they attack him, kicking him in the head and breaking his glasses. At one point, Raz threatens to shoot the man. They then begin to gaslight him that it was all his fault. Aud…

Raz isn't a reason why the police exist. Raz is a product of a system where the police exist too much, which if given the proper social and educational services earlier in his life, his character and personality disorder exemplified here would have been nullified.

You seem pretty sure of that.

How do explain all the people that have those things Raz didn’t and are still assholes?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#83

Post by pnako »

tomschlick wrote: post #29
ncallaway wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The list of demands came from an open mic discussion. They let anyone come up and suggest a demand. Someonen transcribed those demands and then posted them. I think it would be better to view those demands as the union of demands of each person willing to speak to a crowd. Which is why you see inconsistency in then, why it's such a long list, etc. I just think that list of demands is better understood in that context…

Its not a list of demands if it's ridiculous and can't be realistically filled. At that point its just a list of wishes.

Maybe those protesters are all sales guys or product managers.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#84

Post by conroy »

A friend lives in Seattle and texted me today about his visit last night:

> I was there last night and it's such a cool pseudo utopian place

> The media coverage of it is WILD

> People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground

> There are speakers, musicians, art walls. I took a group pic for a bunch of black guys last night and they were so proud of what was built because they felt like they fought for it, which in a sense, they did.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#85

Post by muricula »

dawg- wrote: post #59

Their first demand is that the Seattle Police Department be abolished, as in 100% defunded, as in completely deleted. Coming out with a demand like that is just asking to lose right off the bat. I wish they would delete it and stick with their second demand - take all weapons away from police. No guns, no batons, no tasers. It's also crazy, but at least it's crazy in a "this might just be crazy enough to work" kind o…

A bunch of people are calling for defunding the police and not total abolition, although that is what this site says. Socialist City Council member Kshama Sawant has already pledged to bring legislation to cut the police department budget by 50%, and city officials are going over it in depth.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#86

Post by [deleted] »

Taikonerd wrote: post #57
kf wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that’s a fair point, this situation is a more literal insurrection than the previously seen protests and taking of goods from stores. CHAZ has declared their independence from the USA and historically that kind of thing is really not allowed. Has Trump so thoroughly lost control that secession is legal now?

I think the Seattle Police are thinking, "these are a bunch of kids who want to play-act La Revolución. If we just ignore them for a week, they'll get bored or disillusioned and go home." So the police aren't going to storm the barricades -- they figure they won't have to.

[deleted]

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#87

Post by 0x262d »

harryh wrote: post #64
yingw787 wrote: post #7

I wonder if it's bigger than Sealand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand When I look at the list of demands I'm pretty quick to dismiss it. Then I remember how I dismissed the 1999 WTO protests in Seattle too, and how many of the fears those protesters had were realized over the next two decades. I might be too hopeful, but I really think the city leadership should talk to them and hear them out, i…

many of the fears those protesters had were realized over the next two decades Is there a list of these fears somewhere? Ideally as presented at the time.

well, globalization on neoliberal terms has continued to hollow out living standards in advanced countries while turning neocolonial countries into large sweatshops. the life expectancy in the US has fallen for 2 or 3 years in a row now largely as a downstream result of this. that is my understanding of one major concern from that.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#88

Post by 0x262d »

jerf wrote: post #21
Pfhreak wrote: post #16

Seattle police vacated the east precinct, fully expecting protesters to burn it down. Instead, the protesters set up an open zone, compiled a set of demands, and from all accounts set up something cool and unique. Here's hoping it sustains itself for a while.

No, not even remotely "by all accounts". There are plenty of accounts that isn't "cool and unique" but is just another place ruled by violent thugs: https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/h077uv/raz_simone_... I'm not passing judgment yet since the days are young and the political bias on the ground is thick in both directions. But it is definitely not "by all accounts". But my personal bias on the table is that y…

A handful of incidents like these are being distorted and blown up by media that treats cop lies uncritically. In comparison, just a few nights ago, cops were beating people and filling the area with tear gas (banned under geneva convention) and it was seeping into residential homes so badly that even nextdoor is anti-police in that area now.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#89

Post by DenisM »

conroy wrote: post #84

A friend lives in Seattle and texted me today about his visit last night: > I was there last night and it's such a cool pseudo utopian place > The media coverage of it is WILD > People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground > There are speakers, musicians, art walls. I took a group pic for a bunch of black guys las…

> like a music festival campground

Every generation needs a Woodstock. Burning man is not real enough.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#90

Post by crocodiletears »

kf wrote: post #20
Trasmatta wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His threat to use the Insurrection Act last week was one of the most unpopular acts of his entire presidency, and directly led to the major rebukes from people like Mattis. So I doubt it.

While that’s a fair point, this situation is a more literal insurrection than the previously seen protests and taking of goods from stores. CHAZ has declared their independence from the USA and historically that kind of thing is really not allowed. Has Trump so thoroughly lost control that secession is legal now?

This is a bunch of leftists forming a squat in territory consciously ceded by local police. Hardly a national security issue. The city continues to provide the area with utilities, clean-up services, port-a-potties, and EMS when requested.

Whether or not the city planned on this, it's a nice clean way to quarantine the most radical protest elements in a playground that lets them live out their revolutionary fantasies in an environment where they can either be constructive, or hurt one-another away from everyone else.

In a month, they'll probably cut services and start pushing them out without making a huge deal of it.

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