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U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

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Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#81

Post by take_a_breath »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #42
melling wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is tech unemployment? Still in the single digits?

Sounds like it's still above 0, which means you should be forced to source local talent before you're permitted to source from outside the country. It's so strange to me that this viewport is controversial, but "Buy Local" (which I have yet to encounter someone who is against supporting local businesses) is not. This is the labor version of "Buy Local".

==you should be forced to source local talent before you're permitted to source from outside the country.==

Sounds like pretty heavy-handed regulation. “Buy Local” doesn’t force anyone to do anything. It encourages consumers to choose a specific product, but all products are still available. Not really sure how they are similar.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#82

Post by Threeve303 »

rory096 wrote: post #61
toomuchtodo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it's still above 0, which means you should be forced to source local talent before you're permitted to source from outside the country. It's so strange to me that this viewport is controversial, but "Buy Local" (which I have yet to encounter someone who is against supporting local businesses) is not. This is the labor version of "Buy Local".

>Sounds like it's still above 0 Because of frictional unemployment, it's neither possible nor desirable for the unemployment rate to reach 0. >which means you should be forced to source local talent before you're permitted to source from outside the country. This is already a requirement; H-1B employers must attest that they can't find an employee domestically and have made a good faith attempt to do so. >It's so str…

> This is already a requirement; H-1B employers must attest that they can't find an employee domestically and have made a good faith attempt to do so.

While this is true, what percentage of employers make an actual good faith attempt? I'd be shocked if it was even as high as 50%. In my experience, companies design job postings for a market where only an H-1B applicant could get the position.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#83

Post by eru »

camccar wrote: post #39
eru wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? I know, open borders would be better. But H1-B is still better than no way to come to work.

H1B1 was supposed to be the genius Visa. Not the slave Visa

I thought the O1 was the genius visa?

You are right about the H1B1. They should give the visa to the person, not to the company, so that people could credible threaten the company to walk away for a different job somewhere else. That would do away with the slave mentality.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#84

Post by giobox »

koheripbal wrote: post #74
xwdv wrote: post #31

Good. H-1B is an exploitative system that forces people into something resembling modern slavery, at the cost of American jobs and business opportunities. People who are against this IMO, are mostly concerned with not appearing “racist” or xenophobic in any way. Virtue signal.

My wife started as an H1-B. It's true that she was unpaid and locked into her company, but ultimately it was her path to US citizenship. She knew exactly what she was getting into - and now she's making higher six figures than I do. The H1-B program is a choice they can walk away from at any time, which makes it fundamentally different from slavery.

This is often a false choice in reality - many H1B recipients have lived here for decades or more, have kids at school who are American citizens and know nothing about where their parents even came from.

To go back deports their American children to a country where they may not even know the language, as one example.

I wouldn’t go as far as to call it slavery either of course, but it undoubtedly has a servitude element - the outcomes of the policy speak to that.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#86

Post by busterarm »

koheripbal wrote: post #65
alistairSH wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's its stated purpose, which is why you see it mostly used for software and science positions. However, it's been "abused" by large consulting/contracting companies who hire an army of immigrant labor at the low end of market wages. The H1B recipient can't do much about it - they're tied to the employer (and their spouse can't work unless they also get an H1B). Yes, they can move jobs, but it takes legal resource…

Can confirm. Our requirement to fit the "cannot find American" requirement was to post a tiny ad in a small unknown paper with a ton of requirements that they H1-B we were about to hire didn't himself even really meet. It was HIGHLY abused to just get cheap low-level IT staff. ...like the kinds who confuse Java with Javascript.

I've worked with a ton of H1B talent in my 20 years or so in the industry and I can count on one hand the number of times that they were an exceptional talent (compared to the rest of industry) that couldn't otherwise be sourced locally.

That's true for anybody in any IT position, though, generally. Truly exceptional people are few and far between. Also in those cases those H1B folks were highly paid. No, the vast majority of times I've worked with H1B talent was because they were willing to work hard and for less.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#87

Post by zuminator »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #50
buttersbrian wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Buy local, not buy the best? Not advocating either way honestly, but is local more important if the H1B candidate is markedly better?

Of course, problems are complex. Important to whom ? Do I care if your business gets someone who is slightly less exceptional if it means you have to hire a fellow citizen? Can you prove objectively the person you're hiring on a visa is more qualified, and that your hiring process doesn't just suck in general (even Google doesn't do hiring well, as has been shown with internal recruiters submitting hiring committee p…

In any given field, there's a certain base level of applicants who are never hired because they're completely incompetent in their chosen line of work, i.e. a lot worse than slightly less exceptional. Are you okay with your team being forced to carry someone with negative productivity who happens to be "local" over anyone, no matter how highly skilled, who happens to be foreign born?

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#88

Post by toomuchtodo »

zuminator wrote: post #87
toomuchtodo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, problems are complex. Important to whom ? Do I care if your business gets someone who is slightly less exceptional if it means you have to hire a fellow citizen? Can you prove objectively the person you're hiring on a visa is more qualified, and that your hiring process doesn't just suck in general (even Google doesn't do hiring well, as has been shown with internal recruiters submitting hiring committee p…

In any given field, there's a certain base level of applicants who are never hired because they're completely incompetent in their chosen line of work, i.e. a lot worse than slightly less exceptional. Are you okay with your team being forced to carry someone with negative productivity who happens to be "local" over anyone, no matter how highly skilled, who happens to be foreign born?

I have yet to encounter a group work setting where you didn't have to carry weaker team members versus everyone being the strongest in their field. Maximum optimization is a fantasy. Such is life. I have learned to take enjoyment in giving others the opportunity to level up, even if they turn out unable to (I'm paying it forward, many have done the same for me in my career).

So, yes. I'm not only okay with it, I embrace it. Every day is a new day to have the opportunity to try to help someone become a better version of their professional self.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#89

Post by awinder »

curiousllama wrote: post #16

This is a backdoor immigration cut, nothing more. COVID is irrelevant. Remember that it's not just new entrants that need H1B processing: it's immigrants currently in the country that need to transfer their visa type (e.g., former students moving from OPT to H1B). What, are they supposed to leave or risk being denied a visa forevermore? Not to mention, they've already paused green card processing and shut down most o…

"The US just doesn't want high-skilled immigrants anymore."

This sucks, and it breaks a lot of Americans hearts. My grandparents were the first natural-born Americans of our family and we were raised to understand what that meant. It's of little consequence right now & on any personal level, but America is not a ubiquitous place and the pendulum swings forever.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#90

Post by dariusj18 »

mmaurizi wrote: post #69

Choosing a nonpartisan description of "U.S. Senators" obscures the fact that all of the senators are from the same party (Republican). An example of where the journalistic commitment to being politically neutral harms the ability to properly inform the reader.

Plus, it has not context for how many. Saved anyone a read, it's 4.
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