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U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

bloomberg.com

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Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#81

Post by paul7986 »

jobu wrote: post #76
educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

Stealing trade secrets and technology has historically been very common among developing nations (the US included). https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-na...

It happens within our (US) borders where those who have tons of money and power yet lack innovation and innovative ideas steal willfully from those who do. Patent or no patent!

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#82

Post by rajacombinator »

panarky wrote: post #4

These look like serious charges: Defrauding four large banks into clearing transactions with Iran in violation of international sanctions. Conspiracy to obstruct justice by moving employees out of the United States so they could not be called as witnesses before a grand jury in Brooklyn. Conspiracy to defraud the United States by impairing, impeding, obstructing and defeating, through deceitful and dishonest means, t…

There’s a lot more that could be done here than barring them from operating in the US, which is an irrelevant market to them. Using it as a trade deal bargaining chip is actually the only way to get anything out of the situation without a major escalation.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#83

Post by rajacombinator »

Taniwha wrote: post #79
mehwoot wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the idea, its the specific technology. took measurements of parts of the robot and, in one instance, stole a piece of the robot

But why would anyone need to do that, you build one of these by starting with a cheap 3d printer and removing the print head, it's not a hard thing to make

And the robot was probably made in China to begin with!

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#84

Post by shard972 »

Taniwha wrote: post #79
mehwoot wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the idea, its the specific technology. took measurements of parts of the robot and, in one instance, stole a piece of the robot

But why would anyone need to do that, you build one of these by starting with a cheap 3d printer and removing the print head, it's not a hard thing to make

Well go tell the Chinese they don't actually need to steal any trade secrets or any of this, they can just make it themselves.

I'm sure they will reward you handsomely for basically saving their relationship with western countries and saving so much time and effort.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#85

Post by shard972 »

pointillistic wrote: post #5
sjroot wrote: post #3

I have to be honest — the allegations made here do not surprise me. The days of corporate espionage seem alive and well, and China’s image in the United States is taking a significant hit. It isn’t fair to the honest, hard-working Chinese nationals who want to build a life outside their homeland.

But is it fair to the Americans who lost jobs, manufacturing, future, because of the 20 years of "technology transfer" by China?

It's ok, those people will be replaced soon.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#86

Post by charlesdm »

kuhhk wrote: post #60
charlesdm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Huawei could call/email you the next day (in Chinese of course) if they find something they want to buy to get ahead. That's not stealing? That's just acquiring interesting tech.

I worked at a competitor of them, across the street from Huawei. It was common knowledge that they interviewed people without the intention to hire them, acted super interested, and asked increasingly pointed questions to get you to violate your NDAs, and describe projects you shouldn’t. And they would do the same to those they hired. These are personal anecdotes, but I’m not surprised by these accusations.

Hey, people are stupid. I don't think Huawei is the only company doing that..

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#87

Post by vkou »

yumraj wrote: post #53
vkou wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater > He memorized the designs of textile factory machinery as an apprentice to a pioneer in the British industry before migrating to the United States at the age of…

I don't know who you are or what your agenda is, but any sane person would argue that citing something that happened in early 1800s does not make the same thing OK in 2019.

Why not? China is ~200 years late in industrializing, mostly because of centuries of colonial plunder (And a few decades of communist misrule).

There's a very simple formula for getting your country caught up to the rest of the world. Steal as much as you can, until you pull yourself up to the level of your neighbours. Every developed nation has either done this, or piggy-backed off a bigger neighbour who has.

Just because we've already gone down this path, doesn't give us any moral high-ground for pulling the ladder up after us.

And it works, too. Look at the quality of life in China, compared to India... Or Vietnam.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#88

Post by wushupork »

baroffoos wrote: post #56
peteradio wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone stole their invention and made money off it?? Why the hell would anyone want to invest time into that? Its not like the Chinese are pursuing some ideology of free knowledge, no they are trying to scoop for profit.

Why do people work on open source or give up time for charity? Not everyone is focused purely on collecting more money when their needs are already covered.

Very few people work on open source. You will find that most people trade their hours for money.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#89

Post by vkou »

tossaccount123 wrote: post #70
vkou wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater > He memorized the designs of textile factory machinery as an apprentice to a pioneer in the British industry before migrating to the United States at the age of…

There wasn't a WTO and there weren't international trades laws, in the 1800s. Even then he wasn't working as an arm of the US government to deliberately steal IP to surpass the British empire technologically, which is what the Chinese are currently doing

> There wasn't a WTO and there weren't international trades laws, in the 1800s.

No, but what he was doing was still highly illegal.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#90

Post by panarky »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #29
panarky wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's conspiracy to commit bank fraud if you lie to a US bank to get them to clear US dollar transactions in violation of sanctions. Banks pay astronomical fines for evading sanctions. Infographic -> https://www.refinitiv.com/content/dam/gl/en/documents/infogr... And it's conspiracy to defraud the United States if you obstruct or defeat an agency of the US government. Also money laundering, wire fraud, stealing trade…

Like I said, they do not consider it a crime. Lying to the banks was means to an end--doing business with Iran. Like if you deal drugs, you will also evade taxes.

I don't think it's a crime to real-time tweet or blog about protests or police activities.

But it is a crime in China, so I know I could be arrested and prosecuted if I do that there.

Doesn't matter if it's just a "means to an end", Ms. Meng knew she was committing crimes in the US.

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