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Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

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Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#81

Post by basseq »

johnwyles wrote: post #77
basseq wrote: post #35

This is an interesting article for HN. It's spun as a negative, using terms like "threatening", "monopoly", "controversial", and "retribution". You could write it the other way, where an immigrant-founded[1] startup is disrupting the mental health industry. Frankly, most of this seems like par for the course. Of course the company is seeking to push their product to market and commercial viability--and the potential…

did you read the article completely? there are 9 critics that worked with them, 6 ceased doing so. the company formed and closed it's non-profit venture and they are using typical pharma tactics, creating patents around it. spin is one thing but those facts do tell a story on it's own. > These experts are further troubled by the company’s business structure: Having first registered as a charity, Goldsmith and Malievs…

Yes, I did.

To me, there's an undercurrent here that some of the psychedelic experts have specific, subjective viewpoints (à la Richard Stallman). That these people have concerns is interesting, but the case that they're material or even right wasn't proven.

Again, no surprise that they shuttered the nonprofit: it's a corporate structure that precludes you from raising traditional VC, among other limitations. And since they are now a competitive pharmaceutical company, is it any surprise that they're using... competitive pharmaceutical tactics? And, again, is that material? Or is it just tsk-tsk'ing "the way things ought to be"?

These things do tell a very interesting story about pharma practices, research, start-up risks, a subculture going mainstream, etc. I think that story can be told more clearly.

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#82

Post by basseq »

josephpmay wrote: post #58
basseq wrote: post #35

This is an interesting article for HN. It's spun as a negative, using terms like "threatening", "monopoly", "controversial", and "retribution". You could write it the other way, where an immigrant-founded[1] startup is disrupting the mental health industry. Frankly, most of this seems like par for the course. Of course the company is seeking to push their product to market and commercial viability--and the potential…

I agree for the most part, however there are legitimate concerns about their inability to handle criticism and the training of the therapists

I agree wholeheartedly. I'll note, however, that the topic ("A prickly response to criticism") isn't raised until 70% of the way into the 7,200-word article.

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#83

Post by bdamm »

ada1981 wrote: post #66
atomical wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If psilocybin has some success in early clinical trials then companies will begin work on metabolites and similar compounds that purportedly have less side effects. That is what is happening with Ketamine right now.

What people seem to miss is that it’s the psychedelic experience itself that holds the healing potential. We most likely won’t see a pill derived from mushrooms that cures depression but doesn’t get you high. The altered state of conciousness is the thing.

Unclear. I have close family that is having marked and unprecedented success in treating serious depression by microdosing psilocybin below the psychedelic threshold. The result is profound, sustained, and after trying a dozen different approved psychiatrist prescribed drugs to find help can not be a placebo effect as surely any of those would have been just as effective.

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#84

Post by all2 »

drb91 wrote: post #4

I must say I take a huge amount of joy watching a corporation try to bend over backwards to monopolize a fungus that has been enjoyed by humans for millenia. Is it a surprise that a capitalist industry is more motivated by profits than by the production of useful goods and services? Of course not: but it is good comedy. Maybe laughing at the absurdity of for-profit healthcare will be what saves us all from crippling…

> Is it a surprise that a capitalist industry is more motivated by profits than by the production of useful goods and services?

I use the Sriracha company [0] as a model of capitalism done right. The guy (CEO and founder) just wants everyone to have good hot sauce. I often think about what different things (cell phone apps, cars, homes, etc) would look like if people actually cared about who they were selling to and what they were selling. (I mean specifically: "what if profit wasn't the central concern?".)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sriracha_sauce_(Huy_Fong_Foods...

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#85

Post by jMyles »

elcomet wrote: post #21
jessaustin wrote: post #3

This is a natural product. One can grow it in the basement of one's home. One can gather it where it grows wild. (Ask me how I know!) No user of this product has ever harmed anyone else as a result of using it. Any restrictions at all on this product could only ever be tyrannical. Let's not abide tyranny, ok?

> No user of this product has ever harmed anyone else as a result of using it. I definitely don't agree with this. You are harming your family and friends by harming yourself. People can care about you.

> You are harming your family and friends by harming yourself.

Are you asserting that this is per se the outcome of ingesting psilocybin?

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#86

Post by basseq »

creaghpatr wrote: post #52
basseq wrote: post #35

This is an interesting article for HN. It's spun as a negative, using terms like "threatening", "monopoly", "controversial", and "retribution". You could write it the other way, where an immigrant-founded[1] startup is disrupting the mental health industry. Frankly, most of this seems like par for the course. Of course the company is seeking to push their product to market and commercial viability--and the potential…

Is it a good or bad thing that it is immigrant-founded?

I'll leave that argument to others. I only raised the point because of the related discussion on HN. I'm specifically thinking of discussion ~6 months ago about how half of US startups had immigrant founders:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11309080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13858597

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#87

Post by basseq »

perfmode wrote: post #68
atomical wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has to be a profit motive to get something to market. There have been 18 years of small studies on Ketamine for TRD with little progress.

Believe it or not, some people just want to make the world a better place. Profit motive _can_ help to motivate people if there is a lack of motivation. However, it is not true that there _must_ be profit motive. Right now, there is no lack of motivation to get this stuff out there. It is the questionable government prohibition that is holding things back.

The experts/critics seem to be questioning that motivation. They're implying that profit-motive (regardless of any other motive) is inherently bad.

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#88

Post by neom »

johnwyles wrote: post #80
neom wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a huge advocate for and fan of psilocybin but I'd suggest taking some time to read through the Erowid psilocybin trip reports, there are many reports of people inadvertently causing a great deal of grief for others while tripping.

I too am an advocate but willing to bet you some scratch that the incidence of grief, harm, or violence from someone tripping on mushrooms versus a tee-totalling sober population is lower. You went directly to the most formidable source for reporting trips and they even break it down by bad experiences vs good vs etc. so of course you're going to find some stories that exist.

I'd be willing to bet you're right, but I'd also be willing to bet if we go out there playing it loose and fast like Timothy Leary, not much will change, and that would be a damn shame. Just because the risks are low, doesn't mean people shouldn't be educated to the risks, as I'm sure you'd agree, good education on entheogens helps create the foundation for the most important aspects of set and setting. I'm not trying to be a pedantic asshat, I genuinely believe statements like "No user of this product has ever harmed anyone else as a result of using it" are not helpful. Peace. <3

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#89

Post by ogoldhill »

sk5t wrote: post #59
ogoldhill wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the moment, there's nowhere near enough research yet to know the potential downsides of using psilocybin to treat depression. So far, there's only been one study with 19 participants and no control group. It could be hugely successful or, as with any drug, it could come with possible side effects.

What would be the scientific usefulness of a control group? It's my understanding that the effect could not reasonably be confused with placebo. There are plenty of other studies on treatment of depression; although, there is always the slight risk of a general societal upwelling of good feelings or its complement.

Psilocybin treatment is given in a therapist's office in conjunction with therapy so, yes, there could well be very positive effects for patients having that therapy experience with a placebo.

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#90

Post by RankingMember »

elcomet wrote: post #65
RankingMember wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are harming your family and friends by harming yourself. What of drinking alcohol? Eating too much food? Riding a bike without a helmet? Taking an antidepressant with known potentially dangerous side effects? Going outside without a jumpsuit made out of Nerf foam? At what point do you get to live your life for yourself instead of avoiding doing things you think others might not want you to do?

Of course. The point is that there is a scale of dangerousness. What are the odds of getting an accident riding a bike vs taking drugs like these ? I think jumpsuits should be forbidden for the same reason, but that's just a personal opinion.

Surely, but I think your danger meter may need recalibration here. Dying of toxicity of psilocybin is practically unheard of (unlike with alcohol, for example), and while there are no solid stats on injury/death related to behavior while on this drug, it is considered the safest of recreational drugs according to a recent global drug survey: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/23/study-halluc...

Given the chances you'll be riding your bike among cars piloted by people on prescription painkillers or alcohol, I'd be surprised if riding a bike isn't significantly more dangerous than taking psilocybin, but once again, there are no good stats on psilocybin-related behavioral results so this is just speculation.

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