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GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

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Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#81

Post by 52-6F-62 »

mmjaa wrote: post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

As someone who was thankfully able to finish high school (though, being from rural Ontario, every school I attended in my home town was closed shortly after I attended), but wasn’t able to finish my degree in English, Linguistics and other mixed studies due to financial woes—

You’ve said it.

I won’t go into details now, but there is something to be said for sincere passion and interest in what you do. I’ve worked with a not insignificant number of CS and digital photography students who by default think they’re above practical work and (insert more snobby stuff here). I’ve been responsible for reminding people why they started those degree programs in the first place. Not due to ranting like this, but due to [foolish] added work I put on myself that came out of sheer interest that has bloomed into something really worthwhile— sometimes unbeknownst to them at the outset. Don’t get me started on the application of science and the scientific method and [oh god, the] politics.

There’s a lot of rambling I could do on this subject, and it’s too early on a Sunday to formulate my thoughts correctly. I do like the subject and I enjoy hearing from a variety of positions on it. I at the very least wish it was easier for kids to acquire higher education outside of the bindings of finances and legalism that have long been lord of institutions that claim that kind of authority.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#82

Post by cup-of-tea »

mmjaa wrote: post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

> I was willing to get the job done, no matter what, is what made the difference.

Even if it means building something unmaintainable and generally against your principles of good engineering? Many people will do that, but I hope there are some out there who would value a reluctance to work like that.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#83

Post by cup-of-tea »

switch007 wrote: post #13

The same underprivileged who feel there is no option but to sign a contract assigning all IP to their employer, which at best dissuades them from doing much open source, and at worst, precludes them from doing any coding which isn't for their employer? (I'm talking about the world beyond California, here)

Who is signing away code they write in their own time? If you do that then that's your fault. It's not normal at all.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#84

Post by josteink »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #69
josteink wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your company allows you to use buggy components but doesn’t allow you to fix bugs... Then that’s a company with some pretty serious problems, and it’s going to show in all of their products. If you as a developer decides to stay in that company then that will also reflect on you.

Oh right yes I’ll just quit my job and not pay my mortgage so I can work for a company that has great values.

I'm not telling you what to do, or saying you should quit your job and leave your life in ruins over company values.

I'm just telling you how perception by association works. Your choices are entirely your own.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#85

Post by willbw »

underwater wrote: post #79
willbw wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Aussie with a similar background - what sort of work were you sharing that got you on someone's radar? Your own projects or contributions to someone else's?

This was pre-GitHub. I shared a resource for frontend developers that went viral. If I wanted to get noticed today I’d be writing libraries around something like React or I would pick a less well known project from a big company and start helping out.

Cheers!

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#86

Post by wool_gather »

BTeam wrote: post #38
mverwijs wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the open Internet that levelled the playing field. Of which Github and Open Source are but subsets.

Libre software and the open source spirit existed long before Internet. Sure, It was really hard to find projects and contribute to them, but we can do it since the dawn of computer science.

> Sure, It was really hard to find projects and contribute to them

They also weren't as visible and easily browsable.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#87

Post by Radim »

lucb1e wrote: post #42
sanxiyn wrote: post #26

I think the obviously right choice is: Do not require open source contributions, but do not ignore them. Similarly: Do not require degrees, computer science or otherwise, but do not ignore them.

Staying away from extremes and finding a middle way is generally good advice. Indeed never go 100% for degrees nor 100% for open source contributions.

Going a little deeper and not contesting your conclusion, I'd like to point out "middle ground" is more a result of survivorship bias than a general maxim.

There are an infinity of choices we make daily that are completely binary, 100% extreme, both on the individual and social group level. They go unnoticed because there's nothing to gain by pontificating "Shall I go 100% in with 'I won't cut off my legs today', or find some middle ground that's not as extreme?" (apologies for the gross example, but articulating inarticulate choices is hard, by definition).

Our cognitive capacity is limited, so naturally we've evolved to consider only the choices that matter. We look for the "middle ground" in only a tiny sliver of decisions.

Which is obvious, but there's an interesting thought in there: To what degree is the presence of "middle ground" in our minds indicative of some potential gain, an arbitrage opportunity? Turning the causality around, can we assume the distinctions that bubble up to our conscious thought are useful hints at profit? There's something primal about spotting gradients: the only place where it makes sense to talk about a "middle".

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#88

Post by zimbatm »

Some people say that they don't have time to contribute back because they have a family and and a life. At the same time, pretty much every company depends on OSS to operate. Shouldn't contributing be an integral part of work?

In my day-to-day, I depend OSS to get my job done. If there is a bug, I am allowed take the time to build a patchset and push it upstream. It's good for everyone. The company benefits from not having to maintain a fork, the developer gets to build his github profile, the rest of the world can also use the update.

People who don't have a GitHub profile is also a signal that they either don't take the time during their normal work hours, or are prevented from contributing back due to company policy.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#89

Post by tom_ »

cup-of-tea wrote: post #83
switch007 wrote: post #13

The same underprivileged who feel there is no option but to sign a contract assigning all IP to their employer, which at best dissuades them from doing much open source, and at worst, precludes them from doing any coding which isn't for their employer? (I'm talking about the world beyond California, here)

Who is signing away code they write in their own time? If you do that then that's your fault. It's not normal at all.

It's been a clause in every employment contract I've been given. I signed the first one, because I wanted the job; the second company folded between my signing and the start date, so it was moot; I didn't sign the third contract at all, but I worked there for 7 years, which apparently is tantamount to acceptance :(

Some companies have put this clause in contracts for shorter-term project-based contract work, but I've just crossed it out, generally with no pushback.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#90

Post by FLUX-YOU »

josteink wrote: post #84
albertgoeswoof wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh right yes I’ll just quit my job and not pay my mortgage so I can work for a company that has great values.

I'm not telling you what to do, or saying you should quit your job and leave your life in ruins over company values. I'm just telling you how perception by association works. Your choices are entirely your own.

>I'm just telling you how perception by association works. Your choices are your own.

For that to work, the people you go to interview with have to have some idea of what your previous company is like, which is very unlikely.

Also, "I had bills to pay" should erase 99% of your "perception by association" concerns. And guess what? You can't verify that. And if you do try to verify that, you're the problem.

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