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VC from Asia is skyrocketing

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Re: VC from Asia is skyrocketing

#81

Post by aaavl2821 »

pascalxus wrote: post #45
abhiminator wrote: post #9

I remember The Economist doing a piece on this fairly recently[0] that talked exclusively about how China's tech VCs and established corporations (referring to the likes of Alibaba/Tencent) are challenging (and to a certain extent dethroning) Silicon Valley "monopoly" when it comes to investing in innovation/R&D in super critical areas like A.I., for example. One huge advantage Chinese corporations and startups have…

This may sound naive, but how does IP Theft even work? I've worked as a software engineer for over 12 years at over half a dozen companies, with codebases numbering in the millions of lines of code and I have yet to see any software or code I could imagine anyone would want to steal. And if you really needed some code, I'm sure it's available somewhere as open source. And wouldn't the open source code be much more pr…

In biotech, it can take the form of patents not being honored. Also lab workers learning trade secrets, then the local government revoking business licenses for the US company essentially giving control of the business to a Chinese entity. Have even heard of the govt literally taking equity in successful startups from Chinese private venture funds in some cases

All of this is just anecdotal second hand evidence but wanted to answer the question :)

Re: VC from Asia is skyrocketing

#83

Post by contingencies »

jorblumesea wrote: post #34

VC is China is complex, where many VC investment firms are just arms of the Chinese government. I don't think it's fair to compare our VC system to theirs. While the US does some VC investment (In-Q-Tel) they are far more separated.

many VC investment firms are just arms of the Chinese government

As a serial entrepreneur in China I am really interested in your source here. Care to share?

IMHO based on experience to date I would say there is usually a very clear distinction between government and VC firms.

Re: VC from Asia is skyrocketing

#84

Post by akoumis »

pascalxus wrote: post #45
abhiminator wrote: post #9

I remember The Economist doing a piece on this fairly recently[0] that talked exclusively about how China's tech VCs and established corporations (referring to the likes of Alibaba/Tencent) are challenging (and to a certain extent dethroning) Silicon Valley "monopoly" when it comes to investing in innovation/R&D in super critical areas like A.I., for example. One huge advantage Chinese corporations and startups have…

This may sound naive, but how does IP Theft even work? I've worked as a software engineer for over 12 years at over half a dozen companies, with codebases numbering in the millions of lines of code and I have yet to see any software or code I could imagine anyone would want to steal. And if you really needed some code, I'm sure it's available somewhere as open source. And wouldn't the open source code be much more pr…

Here is an interesting example:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-24/chinese-f...

A Chinese wind turbine manufacturer paid a programmer working at American Superconductor to send them the source code used to run the turbines. The company shortly afterwards cancelled their contract w/ AMSC.

Re: VC from Asia is skyrocketing

#85

Post by kenbaylor »

kekebeici wrote: post #42
abhiminator wrote: post #9

I remember The Economist doing a piece on this fairly recently[0] that talked exclusively about how China's tech VCs and established corporations (referring to the likes of Alibaba/Tencent) are challenging (and to a certain extent dethroning) Silicon Valley "monopoly" when it comes to investing in innovation/R&D in super critical areas like A.I., for example. One huge advantage Chinese corporations and startups have…

China just passed pretty strict rules on data, particularly on state secrets and personal information. Would be curious to hear why this counts as nonexistent?

This may be the one you are looking for: Cybersecurity law: https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/cn/pdf/en/2017/02/o...

Re: VC from Asia is skyrocketing

#86

Post by D_Alex »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #60
abhinavkulkarni wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to be careful about attributing all of the China's success and splurge of VC funding to IP theft, hostile domestic market for foreign players, etc. China is succeeding because it really wants to. With manufacturing in US hollowed out in last couple of decades and China being the new global manufacturing powerhouse, it is not surprising that China is seeking smart (software/cloud/AI/robotics powered) s…

"I think we need to be careful about attributing all of the China's success and splurge of VC funding to IP theft, hostile domestic market for foreign players, etc." All of it? Clearly not. But it would be pretty disingenuous to claim that it's not related. "With manufacturing in US hollowed out in last couple of decades" The US is still the #2 manufacturer in the world. "Why hasn't US achieved the level of digital p…

>The US is still the #2 manufacturer in the world.

It is a clear #3 by population, so I don't know how significant that statement is.

Re: VC from Asia is skyrocketing

#87

Post by adventured »

D_Alex wrote: post #86
s73v3r_ wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think we need to be careful about attributing all of the China's success and splurge of VC funding to IP theft, hostile domestic market for foreign players, etc." All of it? Clearly not. But it would be pretty disingenuous to claim that it's not related. "With manufacturing in US hollowed out in last couple of decades" The US is still the #2 manufacturer in the world. "Why hasn't US achieved the level of digital p…

>The US is still the #2 manufacturer in the world. It is a clear #3 by population, so I don't know how significant that statement is.

It's very significant, because the parent claimed US manufacturing had been hollowed out. That hasn't actually occurred.

The Fed's measurement of real manufacturing output is 70% higher than it was 30 years ago (the population is merely 1/3 larger).

Further, manufacturing is booming in the US. [1] In China it has been barely expanding for years, and that's despite China supporting their manufacturing base with vast state subsidies that have generated extreme over-production in things like steel.

The US has a perpetual cheap energy advantage over most of the rest of the world that is helping to spur that manufacturing boom. Natural gas prices are typically half that of the rest of the developed world or lower, as are electricity prices (US electricity costs are something like 35% that of Germany). Then throw on top the substantial corporate income tax cuts that will bolster manufacturing income margins.

The US outlook for manufacturing is brighter than it is for all other major economies. [2]

[1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ism-manufacturing-gauge-hi...

[2] http://fortune.com/2016/03/31/united-states-manufacturing-ch...

Re: VC from Asia is skyrocketing

#88

Post by adventured »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #24
abhiminator wrote: post #9

I remember The Economist doing a piece on this fairly recently[0] that talked exclusively about how China's tech VCs and established corporations (referring to the likes of Alibaba/Tencent) are challenging (and to a certain extent dethroning) Silicon Valley "monopoly" when it comes to investing in innovation/R&D in super critical areas like A.I., for example. One huge advantage Chinese corporations and startups have…

Don’t forget lower wages. Capital can go a lot further in China than in Silicon Valley. Frankly, I also see Chinese VCs being more open minded about what’s investible. Silicon Valley feels a bit like the British Emplire at its sunset.

> Silicon Valley feels a bit like the British Emplire at its sunset.

That general premise has been widely forecast at least three or four different prominent times across the last 40 years in Silicon Valley. There was a time in the 1980s that it was supposedly dying. In the early 1990s it was supposedly dead. In 2001 it was supposedly dead.

The sun isn't setting this time either. There is no competition for Silicon Valley anywhere on earth on the horizon.

China does not directly compete with Silicon Valley. The notion that they do, is entirely a myth. China's tech companies are trapped inside of China (that's why Baidu never actually proceeded to challenge Google globally, which used to be widely expected). US tech companies get the rest of the world to play in.

Talent that is drawn to Silicon Valley, isn't going to China instead (plenty of it that is local to China may be staying home in China rather than moving to the US). China is dramatically less welcoming to foreigners than the US is. The US hands out a million green cards per year. It's almost impossible to become a citizen in China as a foreigner.

Not to mention that little problem of China having few human rights, near total state censorship and an aggressive dictatorship that has been rapidly revoking the few rights they acquired. It's so bad, they're banning joke apps in China now, because apparently, according to the Communist Party, jokes are contrary to Socialism. [1]

[1] https://advox.globalvoices.org/2018/04/11/no-laughing-matter...

Re: VC from Asia is skyrocketing

#89

Post by skrebbel »

csallen wrote: post #22
youpassbutter wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's always strange that the media frames this as "threatening" to shift power. Why is it strange? That's the purpose of a nation's propaganda organizations. The chinese media does the same thing. Every nation's media does it.

You're not supposed to call our media propaganda. That's a word that can only be used for other nations' media.

You're assuming @youpassbutter is American. Maybe he's calling your media propaganda.

EDIT: dear downvoters: Too often do people here on HN assume that everybody who writes comments is American. I'm going to continue calling that out because I think it has to change.

Re: VC from Asia is skyrocketing

#90

Post by skrebbel »

2RTZZSro wrote: post #29
magduf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our media isn't propaganda, because it doesn't fit the definition. Propaganda is slanted views that are approved or promulgated by the reigning regime in a country. The news in the US simply isn't like that: just look at how anti-Trump most of it is (not saying this is a bad thing). Propagandized media is where the news media is really nothing more than a mouthpiece for the current regime, as you see in China and Rus…

>slanted views that are approved or promulgated by the reigning regime in a country https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fHfgU8oMSo

If you dont want to watch: Parent is posting a video of a bunch of pro-government news reports by Sinclair, owner of many local tv stations in the US, which is known to be particularly right-wing (and, if you ask me, bigoted), much like the current administration.

To my understanding, parent's hidden suggestion is that somehow these buffoons are representative of the average American media company.

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