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Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

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Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#81

Post by _Adam »

lubonay wrote: post #59
beloch wrote: post #31

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…

Isn't it kinda undemocratic for "the West" to go in and overthrow an, ironically enough, democratically elected dictator?

It's also destabilizing. Look at Libya, Iraq, 1970s Iran, etc.

Ukraine is the only example where an autocrat was removed from power without the entire country falling into chaos. They were fortunate to lose control over just Crimea and the eastern zone.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#82

Post by sverhagen »

candiodari wrote: post #36
sethbannon wrote: post #12

Meanwhile, in the U.S., the administration is taking down government websites in an effort to bury climate data and scientific information. Useful to remember it's not just countries like China and Turkey that try to limit citizens' access to information. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20...

Important caveat: the US government is reducing it's own efforts to combat climate change. That's not censorship.

I've read through a few definitions of the word "censorship", just now, and I don't think any of them make this particular distinction.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#84

Post by briandear »

masklinn wrote: post #74
dragly wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark, Finland, France and many other countries censor The Pirate Bay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_blocking_access_to_T...

So… that's a case of dishonestly conflating shutting down a locally illegal operations and speech/political censorship. Hardly helping the case.

The French definitely censor more than just pirate sites.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#85

Post by andybak »

hd4 wrote: post #62
beloch wrote: post #31

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…

You seem to be implying that because they're Muslim but not really Islamic and very western that it's somehow not desirable for them to become more Islamic. How about you let them decide what's good for themselves? Why is it scary just because it's Islamic? I detect racist undertones in your post. And I don't think much of Erdogan at all, and how he thinks censorship is cool. But you don't get to start deciding what'…

As an atheist is it 'racist' for me to want a country to be "less Islamic". I certainly want countries to become "less Christian" - and generally less ideological, less superstitious, more rational and less socially conservative.

If that bundles up as "more Western" then so be it. These are the values I hold dear. I want more of the world to be liberal democracies and I an unhappy when a nation retreats from that.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#86

Post by briandear »

sverhagen wrote: post #82
candiodari wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Important caveat: the US government is reducing it's own efforts to combat climate change. That's not censorship.

I've read through a few definitions of the word "censorship", just now, and I don't think any of them make this particular distinction.

There is a distinction between open government and censorship. Not releasing information is different than banning people from sharing information. It's related, but definitely not the same as censorship.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#88

Post by imaginenore »

hd4 wrote: post #62
beloch wrote: post #31

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…

You seem to be implying that because they're Muslim but not really Islamic and very western that it's somehow not desirable for them to become more Islamic. How about you let them decide what's good for themselves? Why is it scary just because it's Islamic? I detect racist undertones in your post. And I don't think much of Erdogan at all, and how he thinks censorship is cool. But you don't get to start deciding what'…

Islam is not a race, it's a religion, so he is not racist at all in his comment. You don't choose the color of your skin, but you have a choice which religion to follow, or not follow any.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#89

Post by briandear »

chinathrow wrote: post #19
adtac wrote: post #10

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dump_torrents#English_W... A data dump of all English Wikipedia articles as a torrent. In case you are not able to access that, here's the direct link: https://itorrents.org/torrent/6434C646E33D02F3CDCB9C15F9DF11... On a side note, I think it's fantastic that we have the entire Wikipedia, possibly the greatest effort towards organizing the world's information, at our fingertips.

> On a side note, I think it's fantastic that we have the entire Wikipedia, possibly the greatest effort towards organizing the world's information, at our fingertips. While I totally agree with this, on another side note, I think it's terrible that we have web censorship at our fingertips.

I might argue that Wikipedia is rather dangerous when viewed as objective. Wikipedia editors and the associated political infighting results in defacto censorship if your interpretation of facts doesn't follow the crowd.

I am not saying Wikipedia is bad -- but it is definitely not an unbiased source.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#90

Post by fapjacks »

pizza wrote: post #55
beloch wrote: post #31

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…

FWIW, here is a map of US military bases in the region https://www.antiwar.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/1.-u...

This is a great map. However it doesn't include "minor" bases and classified installations, FWIW. It appears to be a map of unclassified bases with air operations capabilities, e.g. an unclassified base you could fly into and out of.
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