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The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

nautil.us

81–90 of 131 posts

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#81
post #42

Considering HN is a relatively affluent crowd would anyone who is having trouble online dating pay to have their dating profile edited/rewritten and also their msgs to potential dates (I say to women as would seem to be most likely) . Thus saving time and lessening frustration? There seem to be a lot of decently intelligent men that are not skilled at writing good profiles and msgs. Thoughts on what one would pay, wi…

Is it really about what's written??? 90% is visual is it not? How is it for you ... if you don't find her attractive as im sure you look at her pics first.. are you going to bother reading what her profile says?

TL;DR - Put some real effort and time into optimizing your dating profile.

I think it is how it is written. I met my wife on Match.com 16 years ago, back in the dinosaur age of internet dating. If you look around on these sites, they often have a 2000 character (or similar) limit on the text you can put in the profile, and most ads do not even use 10% of that. "I'm not good at these forms, just ask me anything!" or some useless drivel that does not tell me about the person.

My profiles had the most success when I used all the character count, and I spent a fair amount of time editing in Word. Since you get one shot to make a first impression, why not make the best possible? I try to get someone who knows me well to read it, and to check to make sure the tone is correct. Who wants to date someone who comes across as angry or bitter?

If I put that much effort into the wording, I would always get a ton of top level choices. The women wrote me, I didn't have to chase them. I think the differentiator was that they could clearly get a sense of my personality (what I thought was funny, etc) from reading the max length profile, and it stood apart from the 100 character competition. At the end of the day, it is a sales job like any other - put on your best presentation, clearly explain your deal breakers in a positive way, and be better prepared than the next guy.

Because all you have to do is be more appealing than the competition. If the other guy is more attractive, but seems boring, then you will probably beat him if your profile is amusing. Intelligent women get tired of pretty but stupid guys, they usually want someone with more substance. If you can communicate that in your ad before the first date, then you are several steps ahead.

I have an outside sales background; once I put dating in the context of selling it became something I was quite good at. I was just selling myself after all.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#82
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it racist to have physical preferences that conform to "race"? If I were, for example, to like tall men, and therefore have a preference for men of a race which is stereotypically tall, does that make me racist?

Yeah, it is by definition. If you are excluding somebody just because of their race (even if they are tall, handsome, or whatever else your are seeking on a partner), then it is. It is fine, there is nothing wrong with it, as you should do whatever you want with your romantic life, but it is racist as you are excluding a group of people from your dating pool just because of their race.

Am I also a sexist because I am not gay?

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#83
post #14

I'm just going to preface this by saying I'm a fairly physically unattractive man (short, Asian, assymetrical face with no strong jawline). The quality of the women (based on intellect, personality, accomplishments, and appearance) who I've met in real life first before dating have been vastly superior to the women who I managed to find a date with through online dating. Besides the restrictiveness of the online dati…

Being an Asian does not imply unattractiveness. It's one's other properties that determine attractiveness (muscular body, etc).

Considering Asian as a property of unattractiveness is racist. Even if you are an Asian yourself.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#84
Anecdotal agreement:

I spent some time using online dating several years ago, but I wasn't really sure what I was looking for. I messaged a lot of women, got ignored by a lot of women, went on a couple of very unfulfilling dates. The issue was that (for me and my targets) when you log in there's just so many people. So you use very brutal winnowing to filter down to a manageable set, but (obviously) you can only filter based on the info the site gives you: Height, weight, religion, ethnicity, facial appearance. In so doing you throw away tons of potential matches that you'd have got along great with, but the people you're left with aren't really "matches" at all. They had no particular reason to talk to me, and I had no particular reason to talk to them. "Hello fellow human; do you wish to discuss current events?"

A couple years later (after a fairly unhappy but very educational relationship with someone I did NOT meet on a dating site) I tried online dating again. This time I had a very specific idea what I was looking for, and used keyword searches to find potential matches. I quickly filtered it down to 3 possible matches in my city, one of whom was far and away the best match. I messaged her, she replied, and 4.5 years later we're still happily dating.

I think online dating is great if you have very specific criteria and you're trying to find someone who matches at all, and need the ability to perform a hard filter on a large pool of people you know don't match. Online dating is terrible if you don't really know what you're looking for, and you're just trying to find people to talk to.

(And of course, that goes both ways. Online dating is a horrible way to meet someone who doesn't know what they're looking for, because they're likely to use very arbitrary was to filter the pool down to a manageable subset. But it's great if your target does know what they're looking for, because if you match, your message will really stand out.)

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#85
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other problem I've noticed is that most women don't have a problem finding a date. They can go to a bar, club, library, grocery store and men ask them out. Why do they need to go online in the first place? They are either too picky or have some other major issue. Before I was married, I found dates online all the time. 99% of the women I dated had issues or were too picky. I didn't end up finding my wife until I…

Not wanting to date some random people that approach you in public spaces is being "too picky"? Might as well say that having any preference is too picky. By that definition, I'm yet to make a friend that isn't "too picky" or does not have a "major issue".

I think the point is less about how they are surrounded by people who want to date them and more about the fact that should they chose to, they have the option of any of accepting a date, or even asking for one themselves, from the typically plentiful group of single people who are seeking their attentions.

Ignoring these opportunities in favour of having a computer mediated interaction where they are able to choose precisely what they are interested in... does fit the definition of "picky". Most people probably have their own personal reasons for it, but that doesn't make it less of a fit for the dictionary definition of picky.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hooking up stats are rather clear: around 80% of women have sex with around 20% of men. That's why an average looking guy on PoF/CL/Tinder/OkCupid has very little chance compared to real life. While I think this sounds very true, do you have a reference? It completely matches the experience in the city I live in, and I'd love to be able to quote it to people.

Sorry, speaking from my experience. And probably most guys experience. Everyone who has been to highschool can see it. OKCupid has some research, but they don't record actual sex encounters. They have stats like "As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium" .

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Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#87
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other problem I've noticed is that most women don't have a problem finding a date. They can go to a bar, club, library, grocery store and men ask them out. Why do they need to go online in the first place? They are either too picky or have some other major issue. Before I was married, I found dates online all the time. 99% of the women I dated had issues or were too picky. I didn't end up finding my wife until I…

I guess that depends on your definition of too picky? If you want to have a partner that shares similar life values to you and it's not that common amongst the population near you (or willing to come up and ask you out) just rolling the dice with random people can get old real quick. Some things are worth being picky about and just dealing with up front. If you can choose from 100 people why not eliminate the ones wh…

Because you eliminate entire groups of people without considering other attributes - if you met someone and only learned their religion some time later, you might find its not as important to you as you thought. If you rule it out before you can make that discovery , you never know what kind of people you have closed the door on.

Of course I'm someone who married the person who couldn't be more different in politics, personality and background - 17 years ago and going strong. So naturally my perspective here is biased - on the basis of criteria I thought were important to me at that age, I have no doubt I never would have considered her if I saw her profile and went by he facts and figures.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#88
post #14

I'm just going to preface this by saying I'm a fairly physically unattractive man (short, Asian, assymetrical face with no strong jawline). The quality of the women (based on intellect, personality, accomplishments, and appearance) who I've met in real life first before dating have been vastly superior to the women who I managed to find a date with through online dating. Besides the restrictiveness of the online dati…

Here's another thing society does that heavily penalizes "unattractive" men: Men are strongly stigmatized for wearing make-up for personal (as opposed to professional) use. It really isn't fair. A good foundation and some concealer goes a long way. I don't think attractiveness matters past initiating the first date in a cold relationship. Who knows, is it because I've gotten older? Getting to know someone makes their…

On the other hand I tend to prefer women who use little to no makeup . It's not necessarily a one-way discrimination, though I agree the reaction is more of an automatic response people in this culture will hold towards men who choose to do so.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#89
post #14

I'm just going to preface this by saying I'm a fairly physically unattractive man (short, Asian, assymetrical face with no strong jawline). The quality of the women (based on intellect, personality, accomplishments, and appearance) who I've met in real life first before dating have been vastly superior to the women who I managed to find a date with through online dating. Besides the restrictiveness of the online dati…

When I last used online dating (4+ years ago), I saw a decent number of height requirements stated explicitly from female profiles.

I always found this interesting, not because of the idea itself, but because they chose specific heights as cutoffs. It was particularly common to see women pick 6' as their cutoff. Many of these women were significantly shorter than 6', even if they wore heels.

If you're 5'4" (say), can you really tell the difference between 5'10" and 6'? Are those two inches actually a dealbreaker? Walking past men on the street, can you actually filter out all men under 6' accurately and precisely? It seems extremely unlikely that anyone could do that unless they were quite close to 6' themselves.

And yet it's trivial to filter out every guy under 6' on a site like OkCupid. The site provides built-in functionality to do so. I'm willing to bet a significant percentage of women stating they require a height of 6' or higher would often be willing in real life to date men much shorter than that, because they probably don't even know what 6' precisely looks like.

It's also been convincingly demonstrated that men on dating sites inflate their height by 2 full inches on average. Suppose you don't really know what 6' precisely looks like and go on a date with a 5'10" guy claiming to be 6'. You may not realize he's not actually 6' and believe the claim from his profile. From here on out, your idea of dating "6'" men becomes reinforced based on faulty data.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#90

So my experience and how it feels for an average to less then average guy in looks(I'm causcasin ..5'10..170.. fit)to be on all these damn apps. Basically we all want something hot and or attractive to us. I feel for women who are less to average in looks have it better then guys. Probably sign into these apps and get bombarded by guys. I definitely date using match and plenty of fish(15 different dates a year) Tinde…

I find this is one of the more useful comments I've ever read on this topic (dating struggles and difference in male / female viewpoints).

Thanks for sharing.

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