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Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

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Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#81

Post by jessegreathouse »

mozumder wrote: post #13
Gratsby wrote: post #4

>PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: If, technologically, it is possible to make an impenetrable device or system where the encryption is so strong that there's no key - there's no door at all - then how do we apprehend the child pornographer? How do we solve or disrupt a terrorist plot? It's so disappointing to me to hear a quote like that from the President.

So how DO you disrupt criminal plots, then? Do you allow people to conspire to commit crimes? You're going to find, that once you think it through, that you'll end up limiting the rights and freedoms of individuals... there's no getting around that. Life sucks that way. People were never their own little countries. I just feel sorry for the middle-class suckers that thought they had freedom. Poor guys - they never fi…

How do the extreme majority of our citizens protect themselves from hackers and identity thieves if they can't have reliable private key encryption? It seems like you are focusing on solving a small segment of "criminal plots" by exposing many more of us to other "criminal plots".

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#82

Post by jccc »

Before you comment, please consider whether you'd prefer to vent your frustration in online message boards with like-minded people, or spend that potential energy in other ways:

"What you can do about it:

-- You can contact the Obama White House online to comment on strong encryption.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/webform/share-your-thoughts-onstr...

-- You can contact your state Senators and Representatives via the contact information supplied by ContactingTheCongress.org.

http://www.contactingthecongress.org/

-- You can specifically contact Senators Richard Burr (R-NC) and Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) to express concerns about their bill intended to force companies to weaken or work around encryption under court orders.

http://www.contactingthecongress.org/cgi-bin/newseek.cgi?sit...

http://www.contactingthecongress.org/cgi-bin/newseek.cgi?sit...

http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/03/09/proposed-senate-bi...

Express yourself with the honesty and clarity that the government's charm offensive is lacking."

http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/03/14/take-a-stand-again...

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#83

Post by wiz21 »

winter_blue wrote: post #39
monk_e_boy wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No the weirdest thing is that Apple is standing up to the government. Isn't that just wrong? You, the people choose the government, so in effect Apple is standing up to the people of America and saying 'no'. If you the people didn't want the FBI to be bullish then choose a different government. It feels to me (an outsider) that it's the government that is out of control and is not accountable to the people.

It seems like the country is 50-50 divided on this. But more importantly, individual liberty is more important than majority rule. When the founding fathers created this country, they cared deeply about individual liberty, and worried about a tyranny of the majority. Even if a super-majority wants to deprive an individual or a minority group of its rights, they should not be allowed to. A free country's first commitm…

"50/50 divided" means "nobody knows"

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#84

Post by wiz21 »

mozumder wrote: post #24
kelnos wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you allow people to conspire to commit crimes? Yes, that's exactly what you do. I would much rather we let a few (more) crimes get through here and there. Weakening privacy for everyone isn't worth it.

You'll find the people value security more than privacy. This is why conspiracy to commit crime is already illegal. That's just how society is. Your choice on whether you want to live with the rest of society or not.

dead wrong. The majority of people do as you say, but the majority don't understand the balance. Security means protecting a few targets. Privacy means protecting the freedom of every single person.

With that kind of reasoning, you'll favor research for medicine against rare 100% lethal diseases instead of 20%-lethal cancer...

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#85

Post by wiz21 »

emodendroket wrote: post #79

It seems clear to me that if all the money we spent on fighting terrorism since 9/11 were instead spent on, say, reducing traffic fatalities, it would have saved a lot more people.

That's so clear and so mathematically obvious, +100 karma point for you !

That's basic risk analysis

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#86

Post by rogersmith »

Gratsby wrote: post #4

>PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: If, technologically, it is possible to make an impenetrable device or system where the encryption is so strong that there's no key - there's no door at all - then how do we apprehend the child pornographer? How do we solve or disrupt a terrorist plot? It's so disappointing to me to hear a quote like that from the President.

Disappointing with regards to the rest of his track records? re: Guantanamo, reining in Wall Street, cracking down on whistleblowers, widespread use of drones to perform extra-judicial assassination?

If after 8 years you still think Obama is the Nobel peace prize wielding progressive philanthropist you've been fooled into thinking he is, joke's on you tbh.

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#87

Post by PakG1 »

BBlarat wrote: post #18
ck2 wrote: post #3

Other governments are definitely going to force manufacturers to make their phones unlockable or not for sale in their country. China, Russia, Saudia Arabia, all forced Blackberry to turn over their encryption keys long ago. US politicians should set an example and say we are NOT going to be like China and Russia and other repressive regimes and that when people's lives are literally on their phones, they have a reas…

Well the winds have changed on that stance, at least in Europe. I've seen a couple of leading politicians say something in the line of: "If china can do it so can we" concerning the Chinese firewall and blocking "unwanted" content on the web, which is scary.

The interesting thing is that Chinese officials sometimes make similar statements that say, "This is in line with what other countries around the world say and do." Submarine marketing worldwide. :)

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#88

Post by rogersmith »

emodendroket wrote: post #79

It seems clear to me that if all the money we spent on fighting terrorism since 9/11 were instead spent on, say, reducing traffic fatalities, it would have saved a lot more people.

I know right? It's almost as if the purpose of this whole farce wasn't actually to save lives and to protect our freedoms (for which they hate us). Wow, who'd have guessed...

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#89

Post by CaptSpify »

mozumder wrote: post #63
anexprogrammer wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You suspect someone of a crime, get a little evidence, get a warrant, then surveil them. If they are using some difficult to monitor communication method you have to get creative. There's good reasons the system developed to be that way. People TALK about killing far more than ever seriosuly think about or have the personality to actually do. Bad humour, frustration at work or with partner, or even how to make a bomb…

> You suspect someone of a crime, get a little evidence, get a warrant, then surveil them. Everything the Obama administration has proposed includes all of the above. For some reason, the libertarians like to ignore the fact that this would all be done under a court order.

That's the thing though: the government has been snooping without a court order for a while. Now they are saying "Oh, no, we'd totally only do this with a warrant or court order. Trust us!"

Why should we believe them?

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#90

Post by emodendroket »

wiz21 wrote: post #85
emodendroket wrote: post #79

It seems clear to me that if all the money we spent on fighting terrorism since 9/11 were instead spent on, say, reducing traffic fatalities, it would have saved a lot more people.

That's so clear and so mathematically obvious, +100 karma point for you ! That's basic risk analysis

I mean, it's "clear and obvious" to me, but since it's a major issue every campaign season and the risks presented by our old and crumbling infrastructure, global warming, and other menaces that don't make gruesome cell phone videos is not most people don't seem to have noticed.
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