Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 183 posts

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#11

Post by jrapdx3 »

Gratsby wrote: post #4

>PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: If, technologically, it is possible to make an impenetrable device or system where the encryption is so strong that there's no key - there's no door at all - then how do we apprehend the child pornographer? How do we solve or disrupt a terrorist plot? It's so disappointing to me to hear a quote like that from the President.

To that statement I'd immediately ask, "what did we do before there were smartphones? Did we not investigate crimes? Can't we do that now?"

Criminals have always tried to hide their activities and keep secrets. Sure with strong encryption maybe some information is hard to search, but that was always the case. (Did they ever find Jimmy Hoffa's body?)

I mostly agree with the idea that we have a lot more to lose by inserting backdoors than we would ever gain.

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#12

Post by agd »

x5n1 wrote: post #7
shpx wrote: post #6

>We could put ankle bracelets on everybody so we'd know where everyone was all the time. How does everyone carrying phones not already make this the case?

It's a choice. Duh. Don't have a phone so they can't monitor you while you are not at home.

How easy is it to be part of society without a phone? The way people communicate, organize, meet, is all via these devices.

Yes, whether to have these devices is technically a choice, but when the social cost of choosing not to have one is so high, the choice is made for you.

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#13

Post by mozumder »

Gratsby wrote: post #4

>PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: If, technologically, it is possible to make an impenetrable device or system where the encryption is so strong that there's no key - there's no door at all - then how do we apprehend the child pornographer? How do we solve or disrupt a terrorist plot? It's so disappointing to me to hear a quote like that from the President.

So how DO you disrupt criminal plots, then? Do you allow people to conspire to commit crimes?

You're going to find, that once you think it through, that you'll end up limiting the rights and freedoms of individuals... there's no getting around that.

Life sucks that way. People were never their own little countries. I just feel sorry for the middle-class suckers that thought they had freedom. Poor guys - they never figured out they were the tools of the wealthy and powerful telling them they had freedom, in order to make them work harder against the lower-class.

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#14

Post by kelnos »

mozumder wrote: post #13
Gratsby wrote: post #4

>PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: If, technologically, it is possible to make an impenetrable device or system where the encryption is so strong that there's no key - there's no door at all - then how do we apprehend the child pornographer? How do we solve or disrupt a terrorist plot? It's so disappointing to me to hear a quote like that from the President.

So how DO you disrupt criminal plots, then? Do you allow people to conspire to commit crimes? You're going to find, that once you think it through, that you'll end up limiting the rights and freedoms of individuals... there's no getting around that. Life sucks that way. People were never their own little countries. I just feel sorry for the middle-class suckers that thought they had freedom. Poor guys - they never fi…

Do you allow people to conspire to commit crimes?

Yes, that's exactly what you do. I would much rather we let a few (more) crimes get through here and there. Weakening privacy for everyone isn't worth it.

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#15

Post by mquander »

agd wrote: post #12
x5n1 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a choice. Duh. Don't have a phone so they can't monitor you while you are not at home.

How easy is it to be part of society without a phone? The way people communicate, organize, meet, is all via these devices. Yes, whether to have these devices is technically a choice, but when the social cost of choosing not to have one is so high, the choice is made for you.

For people on Hacker News? Easy as shit. You have employable skills and Internet access. Life will be strictly better than it was when you didn't have a smartphone fifteen years ago.

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#16

Post by lazaroclapp »

mozumder wrote: post #13
Gratsby wrote: post #4

>PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: If, technologically, it is possible to make an impenetrable device or system where the encryption is so strong that there's no key - there's no door at all - then how do we apprehend the child pornographer? How do we solve or disrupt a terrorist plot? It's so disappointing to me to hear a quote like that from the President.

So how DO you disrupt criminal plots, then? Do you allow people to conspire to commit crimes? You're going to find, that once you think it through, that you'll end up limiting the rights and freedoms of individuals... there's no getting around that. Life sucks that way. People were never their own little countries. I just feel sorry for the middle-class suckers that thought they had freedom. Poor guys - they never fi…

> So how DO you disrupt criminal plots, then? Do you allow people to conspire to commit crimes?

Suppose they meet in person to conspire. Would you suggest having every citizen carry un-blockeable microphones just in case?

This is not a "my freedom to swing my fist ends where your nose begins" kinda issue, this is "are we willing to build a police state if it reduced the risk of certain crimes by X%? Even at the cost of creating entry points into all of our communications that can be exploited by unauthorized and misauthorized actors alike..." issue. The ability to retrieve past conversations about conspiracies is a new capability here, not the ability to keep past private conversations secret (that was never as hard in pre-internet/pre-electronic times).

The interviewer in the article says:

"GREENE: But can you just explain why you would compare, you know, a company helping the government design a way to unlock an iPhone to something extreme as torture and ankle bracelets? I mean, that sounds like a very extreme jump."

But actually, an ankle bracelet that reports your location and audio might actually be less invasive of your private conversations in today's world that reporting the contents of your phone.

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#17

Post by mikerichards »

mozumder wrote: post #13
Gratsby wrote: post #4

>PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: If, technologically, it is possible to make an impenetrable device or system where the encryption is so strong that there's no key - there's no door at all - then how do we apprehend the child pornographer? How do we solve or disrupt a terrorist plot? It's so disappointing to me to hear a quote like that from the President.

So how DO you disrupt criminal plots, then? Do you allow people to conspire to commit crimes? You're going to find, that once you think it through, that you'll end up limiting the rights and freedoms of individuals... there's no getting around that. Life sucks that way. People were never their own little countries. I just feel sorry for the middle-class suckers that thought they had freedom. Poor guys - they never fi…

So how DO you disrupt criminal plots, then? Do you allow people to conspire to commit crimes?

Yeah

You're going to find, that once you think it through, that you'll end up limiting the rights and freedoms of individuals... there's no getting around that.

No, because in free societies you shouldn't have absolute security.

Life sucks that way. People aren't their own little countries.

Is this where you rip on Libertarians again and talk about "your army".

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#18

Post by BBlarat »

ck2 wrote: post #3

Other governments are definitely going to force manufacturers to make their phones unlockable or not for sale in their country. China, Russia, Saudia Arabia, all forced Blackberry to turn over their encryption keys long ago. US politicians should set an example and say we are NOT going to be like China and Russia and other repressive regimes and that when people's lives are literally on their phones, they have a reas…

Well the winds have changed on that stance, at least in Europe. I've seen a couple of leading politicians say something in the line of: "If china can do it so can we" concerning the Chinese firewall and blocking "unwanted" content on the web, which is scary.

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#19

Post by bsder »

Gratsby wrote: post #4

>PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: If, technologically, it is possible to make an impenetrable device or system where the encryption is so strong that there's no key - there's no door at all - then how do we apprehend the child pornographer? How do we solve or disrupt a terrorist plot? It's so disappointing to me to hear a quote like that from the President.

The moment you mention "child pornography" as justification I consider that you have lost the argument.

This is simply Godwin's Law for the modern era.

Re: Encryption, Privacy Are Larger Issues Than Fighting Terrorism

#20

Post by nickik »

ptaipale wrote: post #8
jacquesm wrote: post #2

> No, David. If I were in the job now, I would have simply told the FBI to call Fort Meade, the headquarters of the National Security Agency, and NSA would have solved this problem for them. They're not as interested in solving the problem as they are in getting a legal precedent. That's quite the quote, especially given his history of employment. The weirdest thing about this whole cell-phone saga to me is that the…

> the perps are dead, did not appear to be part of some organized group A reasonable reason for inquiry here is to actually try to make sure if they were part of some organized group. "Appear not to be" is not quite enough. This is a valid reason to investigate even if they are dead. How did they get radicalized, etc. Not that it is a good enough reason to enforce breaking of encryption in the way proposed, but in a…

From other intel they know that he did not use his work phone much and saw no need to destroy it. He did destroy his private phone, so I think its quite clear that their is nothing on that phone.

I think its reasonable for the FBI to want to access it, but lets not have any illusions, the change that their is any evidence on the phone is basically 0%.

Post reply on HN