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The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother

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Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother

#81

Post by djcapelis »

mdasen wrote: post #47
djcapelis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a relevant comment, why is it downmodded? Clearly if Israeli security forces are putting bullet holes through laptops as part of standard procedure, that's not exactly the hassle-free friendly security process the article implies.

I didn't vote either way on it. That said, I can see a few reasons why it might be downmodded. On the surface side, its use of profanity and the attitude that I read from the comment aren't useful for criticism. A more useful way of phrasing it might have been along the lines of, "Focusing on the intent of the traveler may help sometimes, but it can also lead to events such as this one where an innocent person's lapt…

From the original story that the video is connected with: "Then they asked me to wait. Since they had asked for friends and families phone numbers I assumed they might be calling to verify my answers to questions or confirm I really had extended family in Tel Aviv. An announcement played over the sound system, interrupting my break in the sunshine. First in Hebrew, then Arabic, then in English. It was something along the lines of, 'do not to be alarmed by gunshots because the Israeli security needs to blow up suspicious passanger luggage.'"

Perhaps not entirely standard procedure, but sounds like it's not an isolated incident.

While I agree with you that the comment could have been phrased more effectively, the reminder that this article portrays perhaps an overly rosy interpretation of Israel's security practices was helpful, at least to me. It seemed odd it would be sitting at negative numbers just because someone didn't like the way it was phrased.

Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother

#84

Post by nopassrecover »

idan wrote: post #55
intellectronica wrote: post #11

The problem with the Israelification goal is that while Israel's airport security method is second to none, it is not scalable, and therefore not applicable to the US (or many other countries), at least not without major restructuring. The problem of scale is manifested twice: 1. Manpower - Israel has a huge pool of very talented young men and women who already received very good training in the army and the security…

Hi, I'm an Israeli who is at least passably familiar with how the security apparatus works here. A few comments on your comments: 1. Scale Scale is an issue, but nobody in the thread has touched on why. The Israeli security model is (as noted in the article) more about the passenger than their baggage. This approach is both effective, time-consuming, and "racist": the profilers have a conversation with each passenger…

A recent trip to SF seemed to indicate racial profiling is pretty much the US approach so far. As a white Australian I was nearly waved through customs/immigration until I mentioned I was travelling with a work colleague who is Polish (which meant repeating all questions + explaining why I was travelling with a Polish national). Similarly all non-white passengers were grilled after luggage collection but Anglo-caucasians (including my girlfriend and I) were waved straight through.

Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother

#85

Post by amitti »

10ren wrote: post #72
idan wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, I'm an Israeli who is at least passably familiar with how the security apparatus works here. A few comments on your comments: 1. Scale Scale is an issue, but nobody in the thread has touched on why. The Israeli security model is (as noted in the article) more about the passenger than their baggage. This approach is both effective, time-consuming, and "racist": the profilers have a conversation with each passenger…

"PSA"? Google suggest didn't have anything for "p security administration" great comments btw, both your's and parent's (I have to post this b/c my upvotes aren't being counted).

Public Safety Announcements

Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother

#86

Post by endtime »

ghshephard wrote: post #66
kareemm wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while Israel's airport security method is second to none, it is not scalable, and therefore not applicable to the US (or many other countries), at least not without major restructuring. The restructuring in the article didn't sound massive. The Israeli methods focus on identifying terrorists by their behavior rather than their methods (box cutters, PETN, etc). The biggest cost thus seems to be training staff to ident…

El Al Spends $100M securing 37 Aircraft. Scale that to the 8,225 Aircraft ( http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_stat... ) and you'd need a budget of $20 Billion+ without even taking into account that you have a heterogeneous population that doesn't lend itself to easy profiling (unlike israel). The major vulnerability of the El Al security system is that anybody that isn't considered part of the "…

>The day a Jewish Terrorist decides to bomb El Al, is the end of the "Interview" system, and the adoption of shoe screening, liquid screening and full body scans.

First of all, that's not a very realistic concern, which is why they're not concerned by it. Second of all, I don't think you understand how the interview system works. It's based on evaluating behavior and trying to detect anxiety - they don't just ask whether your name is Yossi or Abdullah.

Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother

#87

Post by jacquesm »

dalke wrote: post #67
kareemm wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while Israel's airport security method is second to none, it is not scalable, and therefore not applicable to the US (or many other countries), at least not without major restructuring. The restructuring in the article didn't sound massive. The Israeli methods focus on identifying terrorists by their behavior rather than their methods (box cutters, PETN, etc). The biggest cost thus seems to be training staff to ident…

"I don't see why at least these precautions wouldn't be scalable" I believe those policies were in place at Amsterdam airport already for US flights. At least, I have memories of being asked behavioral questions at the gate and of another screening of my carry-on luggage and walking through the metal detector. I can't say anything about the process in place last week. If it was in place, and still didn't work, then w…

The problem is not that it wasn't in place and didn't work, it probably works 99.9% of the time. So all you need to do is throw enough people at that crack to become successful.

Airport security is after the fact, you need to work to create a world in which would-be-suicide bombers have too much to lose, and are too smart to be brain washed.

In the end that's probably cheaper too.

Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother

#88

Post by jacquesm »

ghshephard wrote: post #66
kareemm wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while Israel's airport security method is second to none, it is not scalable, and therefore not applicable to the US (or many other countries), at least not without major restructuring. The restructuring in the article didn't sound massive. The Israeli methods focus on identifying terrorists by their behavior rather than their methods (box cutters, PETN, etc). The biggest cost thus seems to be training staff to ident…

El Al Spends $100M securing 37 Aircraft. Scale that to the 8,225 Aircraft ( http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_stat... ) and you'd need a budget of $20 Billion+ without even taking into account that you have a heterogeneous population that doesn't lend itself to easy profiling (unlike israel). The major vulnerability of the El Al security system is that anybody that isn't considered part of the "…

> The day a Jewish Terrorist decides to bomb El Al, is the end of the "Interview" system, and the adoption of shoe screening, liquid screening and full body scans.

I always figured white old ladies would make for the best terrorists.

Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother

#89

Post by waterlesscloud »

jacquesm wrote: post #87
dalke wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't see why at least these precautions wouldn't be scalable" I believe those policies were in place at Amsterdam airport already for US flights. At least, I have memories of being asked behavioral questions at the gate and of another screening of my carry-on luggage and walking through the metal detector. I can't say anything about the process in place last week. If it was in place, and still didn't work, then w…

The problem is not that it wasn't in place and didn't work, it probably works 99.9% of the time. So all you need to do is throw enough people at that crack to become successful. Airport security is after the fact, you need to work to create a world in which would-be-suicide bombers have too much to lose, and are too smart to be brain washed. In the end that's probably cheaper too.

A world in which would be bombers instead come from wealthy families and are smart enough to be engineering students,

You know, like the last would be bomber.

Can we put to rest the myth that it's lack of opportunity and education that creates terrorists? It's blatantly not true.

Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother

#90

Post by jacquesm »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #89
jacquesm wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that it wasn't in place and didn't work, it probably works 99.9% of the time. So all you need to do is throw enough people at that crack to become successful. Airport security is after the fact, you need to work to create a world in which would-be-suicide bombers have too much to lose, and are too smart to be brain washed. In the end that's probably cheaper too.

A world in which would be bombers instead come from wealthy families and are smart enough to be engineering students, You know, like the last would be bomber. Can we put to rest the myth that it's lack of opportunity and education that creates terrorists? It's blatantly not true.

It has nothing to do with lack of opportunity or education, that was not my point.

It's exactly that which blinds people to see that there are plenty of other reasons outside of material possessions and education that drives them to become radicalized, that is the root cause of all this.

Dissatisfaction has many roots, not just those that one kind of society values.

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