A sensitive subject to say the least. I find it mind boggling that anyone would want to emulate Israel in any capacity concerning security. They've had suicide bombers in cafes, night clubs, school buses, etc.. and no matter what side of the fence you're on it's pretty obvious that whatever they're doing is not working.
The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother
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Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother
#52A sensitive subject to say the least. I find it mind boggling that anyone would want to emulate Israel in any capacity concerning security. They've had suicide bombers in cafes, night clubs, school buses, etc.. and no matter what side of the fence you're on it's pretty obvious that whatever they're doing is not working.
Despite the record of suicide bombings in clubs et al, the Ben Gurion airport has experienced no such acts of terror. None.
Israel is a technology hub, it attracted Warren Buffet's first investment outside of the US, and its citizens live everyday normally despite the threats. Israel's defense forces do what they deem as necessary.
It is working. But many ask at what cost.
Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Airport security is indeed considered a good job in Israel, allowing El Al to pick and choose, but not because it is well paid - they probably don't make more than TSA workers. The key is that the job allows employees to be assigned to a station out of the country after a year or so of working TLV. This attracts young people who want to study abroad - it's not uncommon that your El Al screener in JFK would be a grad…
I'm pretty sure they do make more than their TSA equivalents. At the very least, an Israeli student working airport security will be making more than her peers who do regular students jobs. Another factor is the prestige that comes with passing the tight selection process and working in the security sector, which is considered possibly the most important aspect of the modern incarnation of Zionism, the national ideol…
Having a few years as a screener on your resume doesn't hurt, but more because it means you've passed a pretty difficult filtering process and worked a few years in a high-standard and high stress environment than due to any ideology. If the TSA had similar standards, its alumni would probably have similar reputation.
Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's much more work to have half hour interviews with every passenger than it is to evacuate a terminal every couple years.
Did you even read the original article? It's a goal to move passengers from parking lot to gate in 25 minutes. Half-hour interviews aren't a part of the process.
http://www.elal.co.il/ELAL/English/AllAboutYourFlight/AtTheA...
Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother
#55The problem with the Israelification goal is that while Israel's airport security method is second to none, it is not scalable, and therefore not applicable to the US (or many other countries), at least not without major restructuring. The problem of scale is manifested twice: 1. Manpower - Israel has a huge pool of very talented young men and women who already received very good training in the army and the security…
1. Scale
Scale is an issue, but nobody in the thread has touched on why. The Israeli security model is (as noted in the article) more about the passenger than their baggage. This approach is both effective, time-consuming, and "racist": the profilers have a conversation with each passenger; as I'm an Israeli Jew, I always get the abbreviated treatment -- focusing more on where my bags have been since I've packed them. As a foreigner, you get a much more in-depth grilling. As a Muslim? They want to know your shoe size, and then a whole 'nother screener comes over and asks you everything all over again, just to see that you keep your story straight. Like they say in the article, the conversations they have are not so much about what you say as how you say it. The screeners are taught to iterate a few levels deep into your story and see that it doesn't break down under scrutiny.
Naturally, this process supposes that A) the threat is foreign and mostly limited to one ethnic/religious group, and B) screeners have this sort of time.
In the US, racial profiling is... unpalatable, and if each passenger / family got even a perfunctory 1-minute Q&A session with a TSA security officer, the system would crash. The US is dealing with a larger threat profile, and a whole different order-of-magnitude of traffic.
2. The security screener's job: manpower, training, history
Normally these are intelligent men and women, usually students or twentysomethings, who pass a series of exams and then pass a several-month course. The hours are craptastic but the pay is decent, and a lot of students prefer it to shiftwork or waitressing. Passing the course is difficult but not arduous, and in the end you are really being taught guidelines on interrogation and then set loose to use your judgment -- if you have a red flag to raise, then you just call over a senior screener who has more years of experience.
The reality is that there are few enough openings that the program can be selective. I'd say, as a generalization, screeners here possess above-average intelligence, whereas your average TSA screener seems to be a working stiff, blindly following some not-too-complex screening algorithm in a three-ring binder. The number of screeners requisite for staffing all of the US airports precludes the TSA from exclusively employing screeners with the ability to make "judgment calls". There just aren't enough smart people with the desire to work a screener's job in the US.
Also of note: screeners here can be idiot asses just like anywhere. I've heard stories from many business colleagues who traveled to Israel on business in the last decade. During the rougher periods of disquiet, they suffered from overzealous screeners who couldn't believe that despite "the situation," there were some businesspeople who had to come here with equipment to demonstrate. Just like the TSA, if a screener decides to make your life unpleasant, it is unpleasant, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Past "experience" in the army is completely meaningless for this job. Despite myths about the Israeli army, we are not all super-mossad-spies with extensive training in terrorism and interrogation techniques. Even combat soldiers aren't taught how to perform interrogations; they're taught tactics of battle. The generally security-oriented mindset is fostered at a much younger age with PSA's about unattended bags aimed at schoolchildren.
In the end, the system here relies on quality manpower, trained to employ their judgment of whether or not a given person constitutes a risk. In the US, "subjective" is merely a synonym for "pending lawsuit".
Amusingly, I don't think the system here would be as compromised by a "procedure document" leak like the recently-infamous TSA docs. Like any good security, it works just as well if you know how it works than if you don't.
Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
my point was that if you have more airports you may also be simply a bigger country, with more resources.
I don't have the numbers but I'm pretty sure as it is Israel is spending an order of magnitude more per passenger than the TSA does. The fact that the TSA drill is inefficient (and ineffective) doesn't mean that it's expensive.
TSA's current model is expensive for the airlines because it is deterring people from flying.
It's expensive for airline travelers because it's adding significantly to the hassle of flying: I believe that many flyers would pay more for the Israeli model if it was at least equally effective because it saves time. I believe that they would pay even more if it was not only less hassle but more effective than the current "security theatre" approach.
Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
It wouldn't. How many planes is El Al actually flying? How many planes do the majors in the US fly? This idea does not scale. It puts society on the wrong end of the cost equation.
Also note that Shin Bet security levels require El Al to spend on the order of $100million/year to secure those 37 airplanes - and, when you are subjected to "Selective Screening" - you aren't dealing with the TSA and their seeming reluctance to actually _search_ you during a pat down. [edit: I'd love to know what percentage of Muslims are subjected to "Selective Screening" on El Al flights. The TSA/United States can…
The TSA operating procedure manual specifies that ALL citizens of 12 countries (almost exclusively Muslim-populated ones) are automatically selected for secondary screening.
Even my American citizen friends with Arabic names get "random screening" the majority of times they fly.
Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother
#58Oh, yes, because the Israelis totally have their shit together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihXtbB-4GWw
This seems like a relevant comment, why is it downmodded? Clearly if Israeli security forces are putting bullet holes through laptops as part of standard procedure, that's not exactly the hassle-free friendly security process the article implies.
2. The official claim was that the laptop was left unattended and mistaken for a suspect object (this is the Taba crossing which extremely sensitive these days). I can't say who's right, but I do know I've never heard of a passenger's laptop getting shot at before, and I flew in & of TLV quite a bit.
3. Both Ms. Sussman and Zarathu obviously have a political axe to grind: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=946037 ("The pro-Israel lobby in Britain") - there's always Reddit for this stuff.
Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also note that Shin Bet security levels require El Al to spend on the order of $100million/year to secure those 37 airplanes - and, when you are subjected to "Selective Screening" - you aren't dealing with the TSA and their seeming reluctance to actually _search_ you during a pat down. [edit: I'd love to know what percentage of Muslims are subjected to "Selective Screening" on El Al flights. The TSA/United States can…
"The TSA/United States can't get away with the same type of behavior that Israel can get away with. We have to treat everyone the same to avoid the taint of "Profiling"]" The TSA operating procedure manual specifies that ALL citizens of 12 countries (almost exclusively Muslim-populated ones) are automatically selected for secondary screening. Even my American citizen friends with Arabic names get "random screening" t…
Re: The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's much more work to have half hour interviews with every passenger than it is to evacuate a terminal every couple years.
Did you even read the original article? It's a goal to move passengers from parking lot to gate in 25 minutes. Half-hour interviews aren't a part of the process.