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Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

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Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#791

Post by edelbitter »

Quarrel wrote: post #319
-mlv wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're also the 3rd smallest net recipient of EU funds per capita: https://i.imgur.com/VlRkDMy.png

WTF is up with Luxembourg on that graph? It is a tax haven, with one of the highest GDP / person in the world, why is it, by magnitudes, the biggest recipient of EU largesse / person??!

Notoriously difficult to portray correctly in EU money-shuffling statistics. Some money not granted to the grand duchy still filed under "beneficiary country: Luxembourg" due to some program or institution being headquartered there. And it is essentially impossible to compare apples to apples what happens in actual EU budget and what happens in Kirchberg, home to EIB.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#792

Post by deepsun »

Article totally missed the big immigration wave from Belarus in 2020-2021, after a heavy authoritarian crackdown there.

Contrary to immigration wave from Ukraine (war refugees), immigrants from Belarus were mostly political refugees. They we mostly composed of politically and economically active people (as non-active people had no reason to emigrate). So even with less total number, immigrants from Belarus have higher contribution to Polish GDP per immigrant capita.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#794

Post by alterom »

Leonard_of_Q wrote: post #767
alterom wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ehhh, because only MAGA complains No. Because Russia has specifically invested in propaganda efforts influencing rural voters in Poland to support Polish far-right parties (and PiS), using it to foster anti-EU and anti-Ukraine sentiment. The Polish farmers blocking the border checkpoints used for delivery of military aid to Ukraine a few years ago as "ptotest" was a mirror image tactic of the Canadian conservative t…

You seem to assume that I'm an American? I'm not, nor do I live in the Americas. You're not an American either but for some reason you seem to have taken over an awful lot of the "democratic" viewpoints. Those viewpoints are quite polarising whether you see this or not and they're largely based around the "democratic" attempt to gain the upper hand in American elections by creating an "us versus them" narrative in wh…

>You seem to assume that I'm an American?

No. What made you think that? Please cite.

I assumed you aren't. People here wouldn't describe MAGA/Democrat standoff as "cat fight".

>You're not an American either

I am. What made you think that? Please cite.

To repeat: I am Ukrainian-American. I've lived in the US for most of my life, and voted in the past 4 elections.

>but for some reason you seem to have taken over an awful lot of the "democratic" viewpoints.

Pardon me, I have not stated any "democratic viewpoints". Please cite the specific things I said you believe to be "democratic viewpoints".

>Those viewpoints are quite polarising whether you see this or not and they're largely based around the "democratic" attempt to gain the upper hand in American elections by creating an "us versus them" narrative

If you think it's the Democratic Party in the US that capitalizes on the "us versus them" narrative, you have a lot to learn.

> You also infer that those who do not agree with your position on these subjects must be "influenced by Russian disinformation campaigns".

No. What made you think that? Please cite.s

>and I do not want the extremely polarised political discourse from the U.S.A. to be exported

I'm writing from the US, on a US-based website, which you're welcome to not participate in discussions opinions from which you wish to not be "exported" to wherever you are.

Other than that, you really no say in what kind of ideas get "exported" on an open forum.

Please read the rules.

>nor do I see the "democratic" party as the "good"

Irrelevant.

> I disagree with the application of the 'MAGA' moniker to the current discourse on the Polish economy...

You are welcome to continue in your ignorance.

I gave quite a few solid reasons as to why that moniker is applicable; speaking from my experience of living in both Poland and the US, interacting with the conservatives in both countries, being directly affected by the politics in both of them, and being able to speak languages in both countries.

Your entire reasoning as to why you don't think "MAGA" is applicable to the anti-EU rural folks in Poland amounts to "I don't like Dems", which has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

At this point, I need to ask whether it'd be easier for you if I translated my words to Swedish, because you're not responding to anything I'm actually saying here.

If you feel the need to vocally disagree after reading my comments again, please cite the parts you find contentious, so that we could make sure that what you're hearing is what I'm saying (and avoid oopsies like "you're not American").

Thank you.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#795

Post by alterom »

postsantum wrote: post #766
alterom wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Many americans suffer from this I'm a Ukrainian-American who's lived in Ukraine, Poland, and the US; have property/bank accounts in all three countries, and speak three languages and Russian. The "Americans suffering from this" would be people saying what you just did. Please read my other comment up the thread where I provide more context. And please don't presume you have any idea on how others view the world. >Th…

[flagged]

>This is so debunked that I consider other opinions held by you as a sign they are wrong as well

"So debunked" by whom exactly?

Please cite which parts of this report[1] you believe are false.

Insofar as this discussion is concerned, I'll defer to the Cato institute, a conservative think tank. Quote:

"Mueller concluded that the Russians did interfere, Trump was aware of the interference, he benefited from and encouraged the interference – e.g., Don, Jr. was eager to get and use information on Hillary Clinton – and he didn’t report the interference to the FBI. "

That's the part pertinent to this discussion. Namely, that Russia did help MAGA in the US grow, and there's documented evidence of that.

Russia's influence on rural Polish conservatives in stoking the anti-Ukrainian and anti-EU sentiment, and their open meddling in the politics of EU countries supporting MAGA-like sentiments in Hungary, Slovakia, and Poland, is similarly well-documented.

I'm sorry that you appear to be triggered by seeing a reference to Muller's report.

The points I'm making still stand though, and I hope you'll find the strength to comprehend them in spite of your reflexes.

Thank you in advance.

[1] https://www.justice.gov/storage/report_volume2.pdf

[2] https://www.cato.org/blog/mueller-report-faqs

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#796

Post by Rendello »

H8crilA wrote: post #70
juho_ wrote: post #15

It's the Zabka economy.

To explain the joke, a Żabka is like a 7-Eleven, but there is way more of them per unit of area. And they have more services in offer.

There are 12000 in Poland, it was insane when I visited. You'd look down any given street and you were see at least one, sometimes more. Check out the map! [1] They are excellent though, much better than Canadian convenience stores. I wonder if the franchise saturation will lead to a crash à la Subway.

1. https://www.zabka.pl/znajdz-sklep/

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#798

Post by kazinator »

cromka wrote: post #625
kazinator wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protests in Czechoslovakia came earlier, in 1968! The Soviets rolled in the tanks in response. Poland had a mass solidarity movement rise up in 1980. The USSR didn't decide to send in the military then; they were lucky. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_reaction_to_the_Polish_... There was a lot of unrest in Poland, and general strikes. Martial law was imposed. If you were an immigrant from Czechslovakia in a…

So 1990 Eastern Europe freed itself thanks to... 1968 Czechoslovakia?

Of course not (but we can't say it didn't matter, either).

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#799

Post by aldrich »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #527
niemandhier wrote: post #76

I love the polish, but credit where credit is due: „Poland is the largest beneficiary of EU funds 2014-2020, with one in four euro going to Poland“ https://www.gov.pl/web/funds-regional-policy/poland-at-the-f... Update: The comments below this are strange. I ment: „Poland gets money, Poland transforms it into more money”. Is Poland more efficient in it than other countries? I do not know. Would Poland have generated…

>credit where credit is due Eh, as an American I've spent many hours reading Europeans railing against the United States here on HN. Not once has a European ever given the US credit for the Marshall Plan. I actually look forward to seeing the EU become the global hegemon so they can learn about how much "fun" it is. The US can sit in the stands eating popcorn just like Switzerland.

> Not once has a European ever given the US credit for the Marshall Plan.

How can you honestly say that though. A blatant overgeneralization of a large group of people, but this has been a recurring theme on HN lately.

So I would agree that people spouting anti-US sentiment have been conveniently downplaying, leaving out, or haven't been educating themselves on, this important part of US-European history, but what's new.

In the meantime, streets have been named after Marshall, plaques and statues have been erected (including recent times) at least in the more Western parts of continential Europe where much of the Marshall Plan funds ended up, and its extreme importance is quite an ingrained part of WW2 school history education. Just as one example, Arnhem was largely rebuilt using these funds and has historically paid homage and still does today with such tributes and memorials.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#800

Post by pseudohadamard »

daliusd wrote: post #681
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Polish millenial the perspective is a rollercoaster. In one way the transformation of absolutely everything over and over and over is mind blowing in a positive way. OTOH we're also all paranoid running on what feels like a never ending hamster wheel of inflation, raises and mortgages. And then Gen-Z's feel straight get up locked out of everything. We visit western European countries and it's like WTF it's cheap…

Same story in Lithuania

The Baltic states are a pretty odd mix, Estonia could be any western European country while Latvia next door still feels in places like the Red Army has only just pulled out. It was quite a jolt going from one to the other.

Mind you since we'd started from Russia both of them looked pretty good in comparison, that place was dire.

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